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Author Topic: Beer dough weirdness  (Read 2099 times)

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Offline Giggliato

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Beer dough weirdness
« on: March 14, 2012, 08:41:25 PM »
Hello there and delicious pizza to all of you,

I was wondering if you had an idea about what is causing the behavior of this dough in the picture below? Namely, why all the weird webbing? I thought it might be due to overmixing but I am not sure. Maybe it's too dry? There is stout beer in the dough.
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Offline TomN

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Re: Beer dough weirdness
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2012, 02:12:04 AM »
My advice, for what it is worth, I never use a Stout Beer. I only use beers that are not any darker than an Amber color.  Also, when I add beer to my pizza dough, it is only 60 percent beer and 40 percent water.

QUESTIONS???

I am curious what flour you used? Is it a high gluten flour?  (High gluten is a must, at least for me.)  
How much time did you give it to rise?   (I do a cold rise in the refrigerator for a minimum of 24 hours, ideal time is 2 days in the fridge.)
How much total liquid do you add per flour?  (I use 12 oz total liquid, one Tablespoon of Olive Oil,  for 4 cups of flour, sometime one oz more of water, depending on how dry the flour is looking)

Take a look at my thread...."Using Beer instead of Water in the Flour????"  on this same section (Ask the dough Doctor). It will give you a step by step instruction.

In conclusion, I pressed out two pizzas doughs tonight. Here is one press out and another one to go. I put a Roma Tomatoe in the photo to compare the size. This was a 14" pizza. The beer I used was, "Samuel Adams, Double Bock".


DON'T GIVE UP!!!!!!! it took me a while to get it right too. You can do this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 02:27:36 AM by TomN »
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Offline Giggliato

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Re: Beer dough weirdness
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2012, 01:27:35 PM »
I just used some bread flour I got from the supermarket. The dough is 60% hydrated. half water half beer. No oil though. I like the taste of the stout which is why I'm using it. I like to let my dough sit on the counter until it is ready.

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Offline cosgrojo

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Re: Beer dough weirdness
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2012, 04:23:40 PM »
How long did you mix it for, and by what method? Ie. kitchen aid, food processor, by hand etc.

I personally have never seen a dough matrix like this... I've heard that over mixing can lead to a denaturing of the dough, but never having seen it, I couldn't tell you if this is what happened. My understanding is that you would have to mix it aggressively for a very long time for this denaturing process to happen, so unless we are talking 25+ minutes in a kitchen aid on high... I think it unlikely. I don't think it is the beer, I've used stouts and never seen what you have here.

I'm interested in what some of the dough pro's here make of this dough.

Oh, and nice gratuitous Henckles' plug! I always like to see a shot of the cutlery... One of my other unproductive obsessions...
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 04:27:49 PM by cosgrojo »
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Offline Giggliato

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Re: Beer dough weirdness
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2012, 01:07:52 PM »
The dough in the picture was mixed by hand on the counter using quarter turns and presses for about 5 minutes. Although I have mixed this stout dough in a kitchenaid on low for 15 minutes and seen the same thing. Interestingly I made some beer dough yesterday by hand mixing and did not see this matrix, I did add a bit of oil though.
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buceriasdon

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Re: Beer dough weirdness
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2012, 07:44:25 PM »
The stout beer is the root cause of your problem.
Don
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Offline Giggliato

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Re: Beer dough weirdness
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2012, 01:41:00 PM »
Too much sugar in the stout? Or something else? The stout dough is definitely temperamental.
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Beer dough weirdness
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2012, 02:09:31 PM »
Darker beers are more acidic (lower pH), right? An acidic environment favors the development of the protease enzymes that naturally occur in flour. This could be the cause of the breakdown of the gluten. It has a look similar to an overfermented (very acidic) sourdough.

CL
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Offline Giggliato

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Re: Beer dough weirdness
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2012, 11:51:52 PM »
Well, the dough that I added the oil too did develop those weblike strands the following day. I am hoping to get this dough to develop a decent flavor in 5 hours, used for 3 and then it can be tossed. When done correctly, this dough has the distinct taste of a sourdough with a very short mixing and proofing time...

I'll have to look into the acidicity of the stout and perhaps neutralizing it somehow, but with what?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 11:53:49 PM by Giggliato »
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Offline Dr Malt

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Re: Beer dough weirdness
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2012, 05:24:51 PM »
Unless the beer you used was soured by a beer spoiling bacteria, the acidity should not be much different than any other beer. Beer pH runs 4.4 - 4.6 irrespective of the color of the beer. If contaminated by a beer spoiler (lactobacillus) the pH drops to the 3.5 range. It looks to me that the dough was mixed a little too long, but I am not a professional baker.

Dr Malt   :)
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Offline Giggliato

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Re: Beer dough weirdness
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2012, 10:16:33 PM »
Well, I'll just make a couple batches tomorrow and mix the  >:D out of one!  :chef: :pizza:
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Offline Dr Malt

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Re: Beer dough weirdness
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2012, 11:29:59 AM »
Giggliato:

Taste your beer when you are about to use it. If it taste sour, than the pH is lowered by the contaminating micros.

Just as an FYI, Belgian beers are intentionally sour so the pH of these beers are in the 3.5 range. I am not sure what the effect is of low pH on pizza dough, but if you use a sour tasting Belgian beer you will see.

Thanks.

Dr Malt   ::)
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Offline Giggliato

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Re: Beer dough weirdness
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2012, 01:37:40 PM »
I don't think this beer is contaminated by microorganisms. I will ask about the ph level of it though.
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Offline TomN

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Re: Beer dough weirdness
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2012, 01:07:52 AM »
Just Switch beers. Use some thing lighter in color.
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AimlessRyan

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Re: Beer dough weirdness
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2012, 05:44:35 PM »
Looks to me like you let it rise, then shaped it, and then kneaded it again.
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Offline Giggliato

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Re: Beer dough weirdness
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2012, 07:51:47 PM »
Quote from: AimlessRyan on April 11, 2012, 05:44:35 PM
Looks to me like you let it rise, then shaped it, and then kneaded it again.

No, haven't done that for years. I did recently make a batch that did not exhibit this behavior. The stout had been sitting in a non-airtight container for a day or so. Which has led me to consider carbonation as factor towards the weirdness.
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