Author Topic: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow  (Read 43526 times)

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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #350 on: May 28, 2012, 10:57:21 AM »
Wow, I have never heard of zymase. Going to have to look this one up.

Jimmy,

If you look at Figure 3 at the bottom of the page at http://www.theartisan.net/The_Artisan_Yeast_Treatise_Section_One.htm#Sugar Transformations, you will see that all roads lead to Rome. You need zymase and glucose for fermentation.

Peter


Offline JimmyG

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #351 on: May 28, 2012, 11:09:06 AM »
Man it would be nice if that was true. I could use a Roman vacation. My the only road I have been have been on is home to the lab.  :-D
Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought.

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #352 on: May 28, 2012, 11:09:47 AM »
Jim,

The Pizzarium soaker was much stronger with the different blended flours, than the soakers I am now using with the GM Full Strength flour for this thread and our “epoxy“ thread.  I sure don’t know if the soakers are breaking down and if it is from the soakers being cold rather than at room temperature.  

I wonder since you also mixed up a soaker and used a lower water temperature if that has something to do with the soakers not being as strong.  It seems like I also had almost the same results.  

It is good that the pH numbers are right where they should be.  :) Thanks for explaining what is happening with the preferments and soakers.  

Glad to hear you think the combination of the two is what is providing the rich flavor that we are both tasting in the final crust.  

I am now almost finished mixing the “epoxy” NY style dough and then will post the final pH numbers of all the final doughs and also the pictures of the processes, after I resize all the pictures.

Thanks for your help!  :)

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #353 on: May 28, 2012, 11:11:41 AM »
Man it would be nice if that was true. I could use a Roman vacation. My the only road I have been have been on is home to the lab.  :-D

Jim,

Me 2!  About the only places I go to is home to market.   :-D

Norma

Offline JimmyG

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #354 on: May 28, 2012, 11:19:40 AM »
Peter,
Do you know if zymase goes by a different name b/c it is not in the enzyme database, http://www.brenda-enzymes.info/index.php4 and the only thing I am getting when I do a Google scholar search is either literature from the early 1900s or a review of the history of enzymes  and how the word enzyme got its name (zymase = enzyme) http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=zymase+&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C43?

Jim
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #355 on: May 28, 2012, 11:29:40 AM »
Peter,
Do you know if zymase goes by a different name b/c it is not in the enzyme database, http://www.brenda-enzymes.info/index.php4 and the only thing I am getting when I do a Google scholar search is either literature from the early 1900s or a review of the history of enzymes  and how the word enzyme got its name (zymase = enzyme) http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=zymase+&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C43?

Jim

Jim,

I only became aware of zymase from the theartisan.net website, and it stuck with me. Maybe the material at wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zymase can give you some insights on zymase.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #356 on: May 28, 2012, 11:53:46 AM »
I am posting all the final dough pH numbers on this thread to keep them all in one place.

The final dough pH numbers were:

Pizzarium 5.69
Sicilian 5.65
NY style 5.57

All the above doughs were mixed with the flat beater on the Kitchen Aid mixer first, then the dough hook was used.  For each final dough I did add a little sprinkling of IDY for insurance that the dough will ferment okay until tomorrow. 

The Pizzarium “epoxy” dough was sticky as I thought it would be.  I gave it different stretches and folds and would have like to given it some more, but my time is running short in that I soon have to go to market. 

The Sicilian “epoxy” dough was basically the same as my regular Sicilian dough in how it normally feels.

The NY style “epoxy” dough felt a little bit stickier, but wasn’t bad.

None of the final doughs had any extra flour added.  They all seemed okay and felt about the same as the hydration they should have been.

On another note, my dishwasher is broken now, so there are sure a lot of dishes to do by hand.  :-D 

These are the pictures of the Sicilian.  I will post the other pictures of the Pizzarium and NY style on the other threads.

Norma

cornicione54

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #357 on: May 28, 2012, 05:54:35 PM »
I guess I'm joining this thread pretty late but can someone please summarise for me what has been found in regards to the benefits of using a "soaker", so far? I played around with some soakers (various hydrations) a few years ago when trying to make bread and decided that aside from a slightly sweeter dough I was not getting enough benefit to justify the procedure but I'm sure I wasn't being nearly as thorough as the folks here on this thread.

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #358 on: May 28, 2012, 06:14:34 PM »
cornicione54

I just happened to see your comment so I'll say that I feel the same as you, too much hassle for what you get out of white flour, more useful as a technique for whole grains. Norma and Jimmyg will certainly get you up to speed as soon as they see this. Or, you could do a LOT of reading!
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #359 on: May 28, 2012, 06:42:02 PM »
I guess I'm joining this thread pretty late but can someone please summarise for me what has been found in regards to the benefits of using a "soaker", so far? I played around with some soakers (various hydrations) a few years ago when trying to make bread and decided that aside from a slightly sweeter dough I was not getting enough benefit to justify the procedure but I'm sure I wasn't being nearly as thorough as the folks here on this thread.

cornicione54,

 JimmyG, Dave, and I first tried a lower amount of soaker and really that didn’t do much.  We are now working on different pizzas on Jim’s thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,19129.0.html and now both of us are working on Pizzarium style doughs with 10% preferment and with a 50% soaker.  We both think the pies made with the preferment and soaker do give a better taste to the crust.  Why that might be we really don’t know at this point.  I am also working on another “epoxy” dough starting at Reply 312 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18407.msg188919.html#msg188919  We really don’t know where these experiments will take us.  So far we have changed the soaker water temperature and lowered it and upped the soaker amount.  The soaker is left to sit out for ˝ hr before cold fermenting.  I have left my soakers cold ferment for 3 days, before incorporating them into the final dough along with the preferment. 

As Dave has posted it is extra work and we really don’t know if using a regular flour will make a lot better pizzas until we try some more experiments.  I think we still are in the tweaking stage and learning stage.  If you need any more links let me know.

Jim might also have more to add.

Norma

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #360 on: May 28, 2012, 07:20:37 PM »
@cornicione54

When they figure it all out, they won't be able to wait to tell us all about it. Sit back, relax and let Norma and Jimmy do their thing! >:D
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cornicione54

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #361 on: May 28, 2012, 07:22:38 PM »
:) Thanks Norma and David. I look forward to reading more about the results in this continuing line of experimentation.

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #362 on: May 28, 2012, 07:54:33 PM »
@cornicione54

When they figure it all out, they won't be able to wait to tell us all about it. Sit back, relax and let Norma and Jimmy do their thing! >:D

Dave,

Lol, you crack me up!   :-D   Thanks for the laugh.  :)

Norma

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #363 on: May 28, 2012, 08:48:16 PM »
Norma

I was just playing around on a bread baking site, and found this http://www.sourdoughhome.com/pizzacrusts.html, it's kinda what I was explaining what I do when I want to use up some of my extra sourdough culture.! Just never know what you'll find on the WWW. Maybe this will be the seed for yet another experiment!  :angel:
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #364 on: May 28, 2012, 09:12:22 PM »
Norma

I was just playing around on a bread baking site, and found this http://www.sourdoughhome.com/pizzacrusts.html, it's kinda what I was explaining what I do when I want to use up some of my extra sourdough culture.! Just never know what you'll find on the WWW. Maybe this will be the seed for yet another experiment!  :angel:

Dave,

You could be so right that what you found might be something to try with leftover sourdough starters.  ;D  I never thought to use up some of the starters that way.

I wonder if the skin wouldn’t need to be docked though.  I did bake just plain skins in my oven and they ballooned up, but then went down after they were taken out of the oven.  I did use them to make Panini sandwiches and thought they were great.  The taste of sourdough would make them a lot better. 

Are you going to try what you found?

Norma

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #365 on: May 28, 2012, 09:27:09 PM »
 Norma

I think I will give that a try. I have about 3 qt. containers full of sourdough culture and I really could use that space for better things (beer and cheese) so I may play around with this idea and see how things turn out. And now that I'm thinking sourdough, I think breakfast might be sourdough, buttermilk pancakes.  ;)
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #366 on: May 28, 2012, 10:21:09 PM »
Norma

I think I will give that a try. I have about 3 qt. containers full of sourdough culture and I really could use that space for better things (beer and cheese) so I may play around with this idea and see how things turn out. And now that I'm thinking sourdough, I think breakfast might be sourdough, buttermilk pancakes.  ;)

Dave,

Good to hear you think you will give that a try.  If you give your idea a try and it works out, I also might try it.  I like the idea for more room for beer and cheese too.  Sourdough buttermilk pancakes also sounds great!  ;)

Norma


Offline sajata

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #367 on: May 29, 2012, 12:03:26 PM »
Well Norma, as they say "Life Happens" i will no tbe able to make it out to try you handy work.  It is still on my agenda but not today....

sorry. I was looking forward to it.

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #368 on: May 29, 2012, 09:13:58 PM »
Well Norma, as they say "Life Happens" i will no tbe able to make it out to try you handy work.  It is still on my agenda but not today....

sorry. I was looking forward to it.


sajata,

I know “life happens” and understand.  I was looking forward to meeting you to, but anytime is fine.  It was really hot at market today anyway and then we had some bad storms later today.   

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #369 on: May 30, 2012, 09:49:31 AM »
The “epoxy” Sicilian attempt went okay.  Being it was so hot at market, the dough proofed more in the steel pan than I thought it would.  I don’t know if it was the “epoxy” method, the added IDY, or the heat proofing the dough in the pan, but the crumb was really soft.  I think it was softer than any crumb I made before.  I don’t know why the crumb was so soft.  I wanted to also note that there was a really soft crumb when trying the Pizzarium “epoxy” dough.  Both pizzas when getting them out of the steel pan were almost floppy, even though they were brown on the bottom crusts.  The crumb did have a good taste. 

This dough ball was also very easy to open, as were the Pizzarium and NY style Lehmann "epoxy" doughs.

Some of my pictures turned out blurry, but these are the ones that weren’t blurry.

Norma 

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #370 on: May 30, 2012, 09:51:38 AM »
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #371 on: May 30, 2012, 09:55:17 AM »
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #372 on: June 13, 2012, 08:52:03 AM »
I found that using the top deck on my oven does help to make the bottom browner, with a crispier bottom, without making the cheeses on the top brown too much.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #373 on: June 13, 2012, 08:53:00 AM »
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #374 on: June 13, 2012, 08:53:47 AM »
Norma