Author Topic: Peter Taylor's new restaurant  (Read 6073 times)

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Offline BTB

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Re: Peter Taylor's new restaurant
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2012, 03:52:29 PM »
I hear what you are saying but if Peter is as much of an artist as they paint him out to be, then there wouldn't be a 2nd location period.
I just don't agree.  I have a good deal of respect for JT's thoughts and opinions here, and I still do, but find his remarks here a little confusing.  Many great pizza and great food places have grown to a second or third location (or more) and become so widely successful and in demand across the country?  And I'm rooting for Peter and his great new Wood Fired restaurant.             --BTB

Edit - Regret the way I earlier expressed my remarks here
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 09:58:51 AM by BTB »


Online Jackie Tran

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Re: Peter Taylor's new restaurant
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2012, 04:30:14 PM »
So you've lost all respect for me based on one comment that you don't agree with?  Wow! what about all the other stuff I've said that you do agree with?  Doesn't count??? So I'm suppose to be perfect and we can agree on everything and the world is perfect right?  

Why is it a dumb statement and why is it BS?  ??? You've either misunderstood my statement or misread it.  Let me elaborate.  I was simply making the statement that IF pizzamakers are on the same level as Van Gogh or MichaelAngelo, or true artists, they wouldn't be able to divide their time between multiple restaurants.  A "true" artist IMO is someone who is in front of one oven creating art for the world.  You can't do that at 2 restaurants.  I'm not saying Peter isn't talented or doesn't make awesome pizza.  Yes pizza is art and the pizza maker can be an artist or an artisan, but I wouldn't put any of them, myself, or you on the same level as Mozart, Beethoven, Picasso, etc.   Do you agree?

And if you don't agree, all you have to say is that you don't agree.  No need to say that it's dumb, or BS.  It's just my opinion.  

Let's hear what others have to say?   Does anyone here hold any famous pizzaiolo in the same regard or level as a Mozart or Picasso?  It's just pizza folks, get over it.

Chau
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 05:10:55 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline rpmfla

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Re: Peter Taylor's new restaurant
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2012, 04:57:25 PM »
Let's hear what others have to say?   Does anyone here hold any famous pizzaiolo in the same regard or level as a Mozart or Picasso?  It's just pizza folks, get over it.

Chau

Yes, that was quite an over reaction by BTB. Perhaps he is already having a bad day.

As far as holding Picasso or Mozart in high regard...I've read they made substandard pizzas.

cornicione54

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Re: Peter Taylor's new restaurant
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2012, 05:01:50 PM »
Being a talented pizzaiolo does not always translate to being an effective teacher. On the flip side, it's unreasonable to expect employees to hold the same level of passion and investment in the pizza that one might have spent many years perfecting.

Online Jackie Tran

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Re: Peter Taylor's new restaurant
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2012, 05:07:05 PM »
Yes, that was quite an over reaction by BTB. Perhaps he is already having a bad day.

As far as holding Picasso or Mozart in high regard...I've read they made substandard pizzas.

Lol, hilarious!  

I think he must have misread my statement.  Let's be clear, I am not taking anything away from Peter.  I know how hard it is to make good pizza, and I don't always get it right.  Not to mention how much more it takes to run a successful business/restaurant.    I'm not even saying pizza makers can't be artisans and have 2-3 thriving businesses, not saying that.   I'm just saying I don't hold them in the same regard as the great artists of all time.    Sorry I am unable to articulate my thoughts very well here.  



I suggest to those with the "starry night" and Van Gogh visions to . . . . cork the bottle ! ! !

                                                                        --BTB                   :-D

I think we are on the same page here, no disagreement.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 05:44:58 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline jeff v

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Re: Peter Taylor's new restaurant
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2012, 05:13:55 PM »
So you've lost all respect for me based on one comment that you don't agree with?  Wow! what about all the other stuff I've said that you do agree with?  Doesn't count??? So I'm suppose to be perfect and we can agree on everything and the world is perfect right?  

Why is it a dumb statement and why is it BS?  ??? You've either misunderstood my statement or misread it.  Let me elaborate.  I was simply making the statement that IF pizzamakers are on the same level as Van Gogh or MichaelAngelo, or true artists, they wouldn't be able to divide their time between multiple restaurants.  A "true" artist IMO is someone who is in front of one oven creating art for the world.  You can't do that at 2 restaurants.  I'm not saying Peter isn't talented or doesn't make awesome pizza.  Yes pizza is art and the pizza maker can be an artist or an artisan, but I wouldn't put any of them, myself, or you on the same level is Mozart, Beethoven, Picasso, etc.   Do you agree?

And if you don't agree, all you have to say is that you don't agree.  No need to say that it's dumb, or BS.  It's just my opinion.  

Let's hear what others have to say?   Does anyone here hold any famous pizzaiolo in the same regard or level as a Mozart or Picasso?  It's just pizza folks, get over it.

Chau

FWIW, this is how I took your statement originally, and agree with.

PFT, gained lots of respect here for sharing every step in making his pizza, oven, etc and sweating every detail on the process. Does that mean every pizza in the restaurants will have that attention to detail by him? Again my opinion is no. There were clues early on to this. Him not making every pizza himself, making statements that 75% of the customers would be happy w less than obsessive pizza etc.

Does all that mean that his pizza can't be great? No. Does that mean his places won't succeed? Not necessarily. It means that he is choosing a different way or business model than to make every pizza himself and spend all his time at one place. Maybe he wants to make a duplicatable system that can be scaled. Papa John used to make all his pizzas. Maybe they were better then too. :) jk

OTOH, there are others who prefer to make every pizza themselves and be in one place. Different strokes.
Back to being a civilian pizza maker only.

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Peter Taylor's new restaurant
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2012, 05:34:39 PM »
Let's hear what others have to say?

I'll respect you in the morning, really, I promise....um...I mean... I still respect you.  ;D  Where is my bottle?

Seriously folks, respect around here should be based on knowledge, experience, and the way you treat other people - not on expressing an opinion.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
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Online TXCraig1

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Re: Peter Taylor's new restaurant
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2012, 05:38:22 PM »
I suggest to those with the "starry night" and Van Gogh visions to . . . . cork the bottle ! ! !

I think we are on the same page here, no disagreement.

 ???

I disagree, and I'm going to go get a drink right now to be sure.   ;)

"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: Peter Taylor's new restaurant
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2012, 06:15:36 PM »
I think this entire debate is the one I have internally whenever I think about how fun it would be to try and start my own pizza shop someday. I would want to make my pizzas and put my touch on it all, but I also want to be able to spend time with my family, take vacations, and pursue other business interests.

I think it's near impossible to spend everyday in front of the same oven and be very financially successful, have hobbies, or a solid family life. Maybe you do like UPN and have very select hours and just close the business from time to time?

I don't think either one is right or wrong, I guess it's just balancing priorities.


Offline SinoChef

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Re: Peter Taylor's new restaurant
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2012, 06:32:33 AM »
My turn to disagree with Chau...... :-D

Quote
And the bit about Peter only trusting himself with the oven.  I don't even know if this is true or not, but if it is, it made me laugh.  Anyone can learn how to work an oven, it's just a skill and it can be learned fairly quickly if one is doing it on a daily basis. 

 Anyone?  :-\  (Sorry, to many years in commercial kitchens)

Quote
And when it comes to pizza and other things, there's always the possibility of the student becoming better than the master.  That's why most hold their secrets so tightly.  It's not because they are the only ones who can do it or they only trust themselves.  It's truely b/c they fear that others can do it better.

No, I just fear they will muck it up and cost me money and time.

I finally was able to steal my pastry/bread guy away from his current job. And get him back with me. I trained him 3 years ago on my breads/desserts.

When I make my own breads, I get, "wow, this is really excellent bread".

When he makes my bread, with my recipes, and my techniques,  I get "............................omg..............", then more silence as people are to busy eating to speak.

It is quite silly. But I am more then happy he can make my breads, and make them better then I can. Like 1% better then I can, but that's enough.

Quote
I hear what you are saying but if Peter is as much of an artist as they paint him out to be, then there wouldn't be a 2nd location period

So maybe that is what your meaning was.

You can be talented as a musician if you give it enough study and practice.

And some people fall out of bed in the morning with the ability to play Korsakov's Flight of the Bumble Bee, with a rubber band, some duct tape, and a pencil.

The difference between gifted, and talented.

I have some baking skills, but my bread guy is a gifted baker.

And I did not teach him that......

 :)

Online Jackie Tran

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Re: Peter Taylor's new restaurant
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2012, 08:49:54 AM »
SinoChef - those are some excellent points you brought up and I can't say I disagree with you, so I guess I am saying I disagree with me as well.  :-D

Anyone?    (Sorry, to many years in commercial kitchens)

Okay, not anyone and certainly not everyone.  There are some ppl that just won't get it b/c they have no interest in learning that particular trade.  You we'll have to just look with our eyes and train someone who shows interest and promise after a short time on the peel.  But if I am correct, Peter wasn't born with a pizza peel in hand, it's just a learned process that is part of being a pizza maker.  I overexaggerated by saying everyone just to say that the guy working the oven doesn't have to be Peter.  If it's that way, it's because he chooses it.  Nothing wrong with that either.  I'm not sure I would be so trusting if I am to open my first restaurant either... :-\

No, I just fear they will muck it up and cost me money and time.

I finally was able to steal my pastry/bread guy away from his current job. And get him back with me. I trained him 3 years ago on my breads/desserts.

When I make my own breads, I get, "wow, this is really excellent bread".

When he makes my bread, with my recipes, and my techniques,  I get "............................omg..............", then more silence as people are to busy eating to speak.

It is quite silly. But I am more then happy he can make my breads, and make them better then I can. Like 1% better then I can, but that's enough.


I agree and this says a lot about you as a person.  You are a big enough person to recognize when someone else can do something better and to elevate that person in such a position even if it's not you getting all the credit.  I'm sure there are others who choose to keep the spotlight on themselves.  

I ate pizzas at a VPN establishment made by and cooked by the student with several years of experience versus one made by his teacher the pizzaiolo, and I could tell the difference.  The teacher's was better.  Same dough, almost the same opening method, but the teacher baked it a bit hotter and quicker and it was better.  

So you are right, you can train someone to make breads or work a wfo, but some will naturally do it better.  

You can be talented as a musician if you give it enough study and practice.

And some people fall out of bed in the morning with the ability to play Korsakov's Flight of the Bumble Bee, with a rubber band, some duct tape, and a pencil.

The difference between gifted, and talented.

I have some baking skills, but my bread guy is a gifted baker.

And I did not teach him that......


Really good point and example.   My parents really wanted one of us kids to be involved in music, and my siblings and myself all tried, but we were never gifted.   As a kid, I played violin for 9 years, took piano lessons, and fooled around with the guitar for a bit.  All passably and never with any real gift no matter how much I practiced.  

One time during college, my brother introduced me to his roommate who was playing a very complicated Beethoven piece on his keyboard.  I was really impress and asked him how long he had been playing.  A year and a half is all, and it was self taught.  This guy had taught himself how to play piano, taught himself how to read music, keep rhythm, it was incredible.   He was gifted.  

So the question is, are people like Peter gifted or are they talented.  I say talented, but that's just me.  Gifted might be reserved for someone who just seems born to do something like paint or play music.  We see examples of this at a very early age, when kids gravitate towards a certain talent or skill. Now if you have a child prodigy pizza maker, then I would say he's the exception.  
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 10:30:24 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline SinoChef

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Re: Peter Taylor's new restaurant
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2012, 09:01:21 AM »
Quote
I agree and this says a lot about you as a person.  You are a big enough person to recognize when someone else can do something better

 :-D No, more like lazy. Baking bread is very therapeutic for me. But when it has to be done, and my day is already full, it just an irritation.

And I wasn't really disagreeing with you, it just looked like you were getting creamed here, so I decided to pile on!

Offline rpmfla

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Re: Peter Taylor's new restaurant
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2012, 09:54:27 AM »
Ok, I'm not a moderator or administrator of this forum, but I would hate to see what began as a discussion about Peter Taylor's new restaurant get way off on a philosophical tangent (though I have enjoyed reading what has been written).

When I made my comments about the quality of his Tampa pizza being less since he went over to get his new place started I want to stress that it is still very good pizza...just not the amazing experience it was. For about the first year he did everything except serving, and had some of his family assisting in prep and in serving.

He is obviously a very intelligent, driven, intense man, and I know he agonized about whether to open a second place. The location of his new place should make it much more successful than the one in Tampa, which is in a strip mall back off the road with poor signage. Basically, his Tampa place became successful because of the great food overcoming the poor location.







Online Jackie Tran

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Re: Peter Taylor's new restaurant
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2012, 10:33:37 AM »
You are right Rmpfla, sorry I got off topic there.  I wish Peter all the best.  If I am ever in the area, I will definitely make time to visit Peter and try his pizza.

Offline SinoChef

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Re: Peter Taylor's new restaurant
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2012, 03:18:26 AM »
Quote
Ok, I'm not a moderator or administrator of this forum, but I would hate to see what began as a discussion about Peter Taylor's new restaurant get way off on a philosophical tangent

Par for the course here  :-D

Offline rpmfla

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Re: Peter Taylor's new restaurant
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2012, 09:52:30 AM »
So I went to Wood Fired (Tampa) for lunch yesterday with a friend. I got the small Raquel and she got the Bianca (Fresh Mozzarella, Ricotta, Garlic Slivers, Organic Herbs, Olive Oil, Cracked Black Pepper). For the 4th visit in a row, the dough had very little spring compared to "the old days" and was a bit on the tough side...especially as it cooled. The flavor was still there...and excellent, but the cornicione was flat and didn't have the crisp to tender bite it used to have.

My friend (an admittedly very picky eater) said the Bianca was very bland so asked the waitress first for salt and then for some more garlic. The waitress said that a lot of people ask for these additions. I tried a piece of the Bianca with the additional garlic and salt and it was great.

I don't want this to seem like I am just posting to criticize Peter's Tampa location. As I stated above, it is still very good pizza, just not what it once was. I think Peter should look into cloning so we can have him on both sides of Tampa Bay.

Offline David Deas

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Re: Peter Taylor's new restaurant
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2012, 09:25:29 AM »
I also would not be surprise to hear if Anthony Mangieri opens a 2nd place some day, now that he has expanded his menu.  



I would.  Guys like that do not open up second locations. 

Maybe when he's gets old or something.  But even after then.