Author Topic: Neopolitan dough?  (Read 3415 times)

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Offline PIZZA FREAK

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Neopolitan dough?
« on: August 30, 2005, 03:19:38 PM »
I am a new registered member but I have been reading posts on this website for a while trying to learn how to make the best Pizza, I want to thank all you guys for all the help you have given me. I grew up in New Haven, CT eating Pepe's, Modern & Ernies Pizza and I have to say New Haven makes the best Pizza.

I just received my Caputo 00 flour and the 6 in 1 tomatoes and I have been searching for a good simple Neopolitan receipe that does not require starters or whey, just a simple receipe and I wanted to ask you guys for your help. Can you recommend the best neopolitan receipe, I will be using a regular oven at 500 degrees and a stone.

Thank you for your help in advance and I apologize for taking so long to make post.


piroshok

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Re: Neopolitan dough?
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2005, 05:38:28 PM »
Welcome to the pizza forum pizza freak
You may find plenty information on this forum starting with the home link to recepies or this thread http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1321.0.html or follow the nimerous other thread by searching this site







Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Neopolitan dough?
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2005, 07:52:00 PM »
PIZZA FREAK,

I gather from your comments about starters and whey that you have already read some of the Neapolitan pizza threads on this forum.

I would like to suggest that you go to the A16 thread, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1298.0.html, and take a look at the recipes posted at Replies # 73 (p.4), 87 (p.5) and 133 (p.7). For dough processing, I would follow the steps recited in Reply # 133 (p.7). The recipes are as simple and as basic as they can get.

Good luck, and please report back on your results.

Peter
« Last Edit: September 15, 2005, 09:43:09 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline scott r

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Re: Neopolitan dough?
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2005, 08:45:32 PM »
Pizza Freak, I have had great success following pizzanapoletana's (Marco's) guidelines for making Neapolitan pizza.  He has been fortunate enough be able to pick the brains of the best pizziolo's in Naples. His wisdom and insight is invaluable when it comes to making an authentic Neapolitan pie. If you click on his name on one of his posts there is a way to go back and read everything he has written on the forum.  I know it might not seem like an easy or simple recipe at first, but it really is.  If you are going to learn to make Neapolitan pizza you might as well learn to do it the way the best places in Naples do.

At one point I did some experiments with using IDY instead of a starter with his "recipe" and the outcome was really great.  Yes, I do prefer the dough made with a starter culture, but even the IDY version is really some of the best crust I have ever tasted.  Everything you need to know is in his posts. After a recent visit to Naples, I was shocked to find that what I learned form him, Pete-zza, and the rest of the generous folks here at the forum was enough to let my dough stand solid ground with the pizza there.  Thanks to this fourm all of this was accomplished by the time I made it to the bottom of my first bag of Caputo.

A few words of caution.

Try pulling your pies out before you think they are done.  Most of the pizza in Naples looks quite pale when compared to what you grew up with in New Haven.   Even though my home oven is putting out 800 I can't even get close to the color they have in the better places in Naples.  Pulling them early will help the pies to be more tender.  For a long time I thought I was messing up my mixing, or fermentation regimen, but I was just leaving my pies in the oven too long trying to match the look I saw in pictures from pizzerias with Neapolitan wood burning ovens. 

If you are going to use the recommended long slow rise make sure the temperature of your proofing room is no more than 70 degrees.  I have a small room with a window mounted air conditioner that lets me regulate temperature easily, but if I just use standard room temp I have to use the dough much earlier even if I up the salt level (to slow down fermentation), or use less yeast.  If the dough has doubled in the second stage of fermentation it is definitely time to use it, and it may even be too late.

I know you say you are going to use a 500 degree oven, but if you have grown up with New Haven pizza you are going to be disappointed no mater how great your dough is.  Crank that oven up as far as it will go (probably 550).  Do a search on the forum and find out all the tricks you can play with a standard oven.  Some ovens have a calibration to get another 30 degrees, some ovens will stay on full blast with the broiler setting.  If you have a self cleaning oven, get in there and trick it out. If you don't get up to at least 650 you are going to need to add oil to your dough.  Also try mixing some high gluten flour with the Caputo, maybe 30%.  This is the only way I have been able to make a crust with the proper texture in a 550 degree oven.  Pepe's is not using Caputo, they are using Pillsbury flour with a fairly high gluten content.

Good Luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



« Last Edit: August 30, 2005, 08:47:48 PM by scott r »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Neopolitan dough?
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2005, 09:19:36 PM »
scott,

Welcome back and thanks for all the photos and reports you made on your recent trip to Italy.

I don't want you or Marco to think that I didn't think of Marco's recipe as one for Pizza Freak to try. It is true that Marco's recipe can use instant dry yeast (IDY) but Marco had forewarned me early on that his recipe was best suited to large amounts of dough, not just a single dough ball with minuscule amounts of yeast. Also, as you know, Marco uses high hydration for a 00 dough, which can be difficult to manage if you aren't experienced. Marco also indicated that if one were to use a home oven, it would be a good idea to use a lower hydration (otherwise the dough could be cracker-like) and also add some oil to the dough. After considering all these factors, I concluded that something a bit simpler might be a better starting point for Pizza Freak. Hopefully you will have whetted Pizza Freak's appetite enough that he will return at some point to try out Marco's recipe. I agree with you that it is one of the best, and particularly so if you use a preferment.

Peter

Offline scott r

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Re: Neopolitan dough?
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2005, 09:38:11 PM »
I totally agree, Peter, with everything you have said.  It probably does make more sense to start elsewhere.

Sorry about that, I was working on my post when you chimed in on this thread for the first time.



Offline zappcatt

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Re: Neopolitan dough?
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2005, 01:08:17 AM »
Ok, if Marcos recipe is a little tough for a newbie(like me) and you suggest and easier one to start with....... what would it be? I also would like to stay away from starters. I did terrrible when I tried sourdough bread...

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Neopolitan dough?
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2005, 09:42:21 AM »
zappcat,

You might want to take a look at Reply # 2 above in this thread. To make matters even simpler for you if you do not have a scale and are using volume measurements, I went back to the posts and added volumes for the flour and water. The way I measure out volumes of flour is to dip a spoon into the bag of flour, fill the selected measuring cups/spoons, and level off the tops with a straight edge such as the flat edge of a knife. I don't shake or tamp the measuring cups.

Good luck.

Peter

Offline zappcatt

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Re: Neopolitan dough?
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2005, 07:57:15 PM »
Pete-zza,
Thanks for drawing my attention back to reply #2... I had read it...but had seen that their were 4 suggested posts to read on a multipel(8?) page thread..
When someone jumped in suggesting Marco's recipe and others had agreed, I had forgotten to continue on and look at the 3 other suggestions.

I had actually been reading the a16 thread(since it is semi local to me) but had gotten overloaded with all the banter in the early pages.