Author Topic: Spider Web Effect In Rim of Crust - How To Achieve?  (Read 6184 times)

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Online TXCraig1

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Re: Spider Web Effect In Rim of Crust - How To Achieve?
« Reply #60 on: April 30, 2013, 06:14:17 PM »
I'm sure I have.

Not just big bubbles, but also with the stringy little things.
Pizza is not bread.


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Spider Web Effect In Rim of Crust - How To Achieve?
« Reply #61 on: April 30, 2013, 06:20:51 PM »
Yes but I've made so many different doughs it's hard to keep track.  Next time I do a room temp dough and I see it I'll post a pic. 

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Spider Web Effect In Rim of Crust - How To Achieve?
« Reply #62 on: April 30, 2013, 06:40:03 PM »
I don't cold ferment. I've had plenty of big bubbles, but I've never seen the spider webs.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline pythonic

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Re: Spider Web Effect In Rim of Crust - How To Achieve?
« Reply #63 on: April 30, 2013, 07:13:28 PM »
I don't cold ferment. I've had plenty of big bubbles, but I've never seen the spider webs.


Oh so you've never tasted the spider web texture?

If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Spider Web Effect In Rim of Crust - How To Achieve?
« Reply #64 on: April 30, 2013, 07:16:24 PM »

Oh so you've never tasted the spider web texture?

No. Only seen it in pictures.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline pythonic

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Re: Spider Web Effect In Rim of Crust - How To Achieve?
« Reply #65 on: April 30, 2013, 07:17:03 PM »
No. Only seen it in pictures.

Time to make some cold ferments.
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Spider Web Effect In Rim of Crust - How To Achieve?
« Reply #66 on: April 30, 2013, 07:40:29 PM »
Time to make some cold ferments.

I'll look forward to seeing your pictures.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline pythonic

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Re: Spider Web Effect In Rim of Crust - How To Achieve?
« Reply #67 on: May 01, 2013, 12:33:18 PM »
I'll look forward to seeing your pictures.

Actually I was referring to you.  I know you use a starter so may need to use some IDY.
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Spider Web Effect In Rim of Crust - How To Achieve?
« Reply #68 on: May 01, 2013, 01:38:06 PM »
Actually I was referring to you.  I know you use a starter so may need to use some IDY.

Craig using IDY with a cold ferment? I can't see that happening.   :-D

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Spider Web Effect In Rim of Crust - How To Achieve?
« Reply #69 on: May 01, 2013, 02:48:25 PM »
PE101:
I think what you are making reference to is called "open crumb structure" aka "open grain". The best way that I know to get this characteristic is through a combination of high dough absorption and high baking temperature when combined with sufficient fermentation time (usually 2 to 3-days in the fridge).
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor


Offline pythonic

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Re: Spider Web Effect In Rim of Crust - How To Achieve?
« Reply #70 on: May 01, 2013, 03:24:31 PM »
60% hydration, 17hr cold ferment
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline jeff v

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Re: Spider Web Effect In Rim of Crust - How To Achieve?
« Reply #71 on: May 01, 2013, 11:27:20 PM »
PE101:
I think what you are making reference to is called "open crumb structure" aka "open grain". The best way that I know to get this characteristic is through a combination of high dough absorption and high baking temperature when combined with sufficient fermentation time (usually 2 to 3-days in the fridge).
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

I could be wrong but I guessed we were talking about something different than an open crumb, right? I thought pythonics pic above was spider webbing and this is a pic of open crumb. Or, am I being a nit?

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Spider Web Effect In Rim of Crust - How To Achieve?
« Reply #72 on: May 01, 2013, 11:30:20 PM »
Jeff you are not being a nit.  There is a difference between the 2 and the discussion is about spiderwebbing.

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Spider Web Effect In Rim of Crust - How To Achieve?
« Reply #73 on: May 02, 2013, 08:49:41 AM »
I agree. There is "open crumb structure," and there is "zero crumb structure." I would classify the spider webs as the latter.
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Spider Web Effect In Rim of Crust - How To Achieve?
« Reply #74 on: May 02, 2013, 10:10:00 AM »
I agree. There is "open crumb structure," and there is "zero crumb structure." I would classify the spider webs as the latter.

I agree.  I see it as an after or residual effect.  All the support or structure is in the shell.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Spider Web Effect In Rim of Crust - How To Achieve?
« Reply #75 on: May 03, 2013, 08:53:51 PM »
The spider web or, as I call it, ghost crumb is a form of a Cyclops. A freak of nature that can't be reliably duplicated so why waste your time?
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Offline Hobbs

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Re: Spider Web Effect In Rim of Crust - How To Achieve?
« Reply #76 on: April 19, 2014, 02:13:18 PM »
I think it's degraded gluten - specifically the gliadins - the part of the gluten matrix responsible for the viscous properties. I stand to be corrected, but I believe the enzymes naturally present in the flour primarily work on the gliadins. The glutenins which contribute the elasticity and strength are more prevelent. That's what this looks like to me. Some strings with strength (the remaining glutenins sticking together), but little of the viscous properties remaining. It looks a lot like what you see in a mature starter - espically one made from bakers yeast without the enzymes of a sourdough that really go to work on the gliadins and glutenins both leaving a very liquid result. That's my guess anyway. How it happens over night, I don't know. Overmixing maybe?

For example, this picture of Norma's starter from the link Chau posted above. It also looks like this picture from the "Beer Dough Wierdness" post which also questioned overmixing: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18212.msg176429.html#msg176429.


Thread exhumation of the decades...

I get this desired "spiderwebbing" simply from letting my dough double in size on the counter straight out of the fridge from a 24 hr cold ferment.

It never fails....that + shaping the rim so it has the room for this kind of spring.

Definitely not from overmixing.

Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Spider Web Effect In Rim of Crust - How To Achieve?
« Reply #77 on: April 19, 2014, 11:54:20 PM »
Funny enough I started this discussion, have no idea how to achieve it but somehow every time I make a pizza I do get that desired spider web effect. But when I read how Hobbs gets it I realize I do the same as him and of course I get it.

Offline pythonic

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Re: Spider Web Effect In Rim of Crust - How To Achieve?
« Reply #78 on: April 19, 2014, 11:57:22 PM »
Funny enough I started this discussion, have no idea how to achieve it but somehow every time I make a pizza I do get that desired spider web effect. But when I read how Hobbs gets it I realize I do the same as him and of course I get it.

Big air pockets in the rim most likely cause it.
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline Hobbs

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Re: Spider Web Effect In Rim of Crust - How To Achieve?
« Reply #79 on: April 20, 2014, 05:46:58 AM »
That's really all it is.  Lol.

I just made two pies yesterday, should have taken pics

Proof it at room temp, after a cold ferment or not, and let it rise until it's near blowing out. Minimal handling when opening and stretching the ball is important too.


 

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