Author Topic: Anyone Take the VPN Course in LA?  (Read 1464 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline djamc

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 39
Anyone Take the VPN Course in LA?
« on: March 28, 2012, 12:02:28 AM »
Thinking about taking the VPN course in LA...  It's only 3 days and costs 1,550...  Was wonderig if anyone had experienced this class.  I think I heard somewhere that the guy at Motorino in NY took this course.

Thanks.

Dan

Offline scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 4895
Re: Anyone Take the VPN Course in LA?
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2012, 09:39:26 AM »
You're going to get a lot of mixed opinions here when it comes to VPN, and, to be honest,  I, personally, like the idea of Neapolitans forming organizations that protect their culture as it traverses the globe, but I think many believe that VPN is mostly about making money rather than protecting culture and spreading knowledge.

Feelings about VPN aside, I think the most important aspect of choosing training is the teacher. In other words, ignore the organization that's doing the 'certification' and take a long look at who's actually going to be teaching the class.

http://anticapizzeria.net/vpn/about-us.html

I recently met Giulio and had a chance to sample his pizza, and I can say that unequivocally, he's the real deal.  I didn't get a chance to talk to him much- I would loved to have gotten a better idea as to how open he is about his process.  A good teacher is an open book.  From talks we've had with Roberto, it doesn't seem like he keeps any secrets- in that sense, he's more teacher than businessman. If Giulio is equally as open (and I'm guessing that he probably is), then 1,550 for three days of training, for someone that wants to streamline their Neapolitan pizza making education and for whom $1,550 isn't a lot of money, then I think he'd be a good choice.  This is all moot, though, as Giulio is very actively running a relatively new pizzeria and is most likely not traveling to LA to teach. I know very little about Jose' Barrios, so I can't vouch for him.

There are definitely less costly ways to learn Neapolitan pizza.  Matthew and Craig are both self taught and capable of making renowned pizza (along with other members of the forum).  Even with 3 days (which is very little time), you're still going to need countless hours in front of an oven, so a huge portion of your learning is going to be self initiated anyway. If you develop some skills on your own, there's also apprentice opportunities to be found.  There's also reams of information within these walls.

If I was venturing into the world of Neapolitan pizza, I wouldn't spend a cent on training, but I'm pretty cheap and have a very gung ho DIY disposition. For those that are looking for a little more hand holding and don't mind spending top dollar to get it, then training might be a viable option. But, as I said, make sure it's with someone that knows their stuff- Roberto's super busy and isn't doing training right now, but I trust him as a teacher, and, while Giulio might not be traveling to LA, it might be worth investigating his availability for classes in NY. Matthew might be venturing towards training, although I've heard he might have issues with oven access during off hours.

The most important aspect, like I said, is the teacher. If you really want to go the training route, find the best teacher, regardless of organization affiliation, and make absolutely certain that they're going to be present for the entire class and not just showing up now and then to make sure their 'assistants' are doing a good job.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 04:46:15 PM by scott123 »

Offline djamc

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 39
Re: Anyone Take the VPN Course in LA?
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2012, 03:26:15 AM »
Thanks for the reply Scott123...

I guess my thought on the matter is that I paid a lot more than 1,550 for my college education, so why not pay a few more dollars to accelerate my pizza education...  I also do not have a wfo, so it would give me that experience.  I make my pizzas currently in a Little Black Egg and a home electric oven that I can get to 750...  Maybe the money would b better spent actually buying my own wfo for 2k....

Thanks again!

Dan

Offline weemis

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 522
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Columbus, OH
    • My Pizza Web Blog
Re: Anyone Take the VPN Course in LA?
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2012, 10:10:36 AM »
i was looking into getting trained for WFO briefly, and when i saw how much it costed and how little real time was spent for that money (3 days!), i bought a portable wood fired oven instead. IMHO, it's the answer for learning, as these things take time. this forum can answer any questions you have (or have already answered them in previous posts) on your journey, and from many different perspectives and experience levels. then, you have something to show for your cost! and since i personally chose a portable WFO, i'm in the process of turning it into a money making venture to boot!

i can't speak for the validity of the education you will receive from the class you're looking into, but for the money, i'd rather have something to show for it in the end. you're always learning if you're in front of the oven. and your friends will love it, too!
Nick Gore - just a dough eyed wanderer

Offline djamc

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 39
Re: Anyone Take the VPN Course in LA?
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2012, 10:58:38 AM »
weemis,

which oven did u purchase?

Dan

Offline weemis

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 522
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Columbus, OH
    • My Pizza Web Blog
Re: Anyone Take the VPN Course in LA?
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2012, 01:31:17 PM »
weemis,

which oven did u purchase?

Dan


Not sure. There's a guy here in Columbus that built it for his own use. He got out of the game and I got a really good deal. if you're lookin for the whole shabang, there's a post on here of a guy selling his fully equipped setup for $8,000. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18389.msg178606.html#msg178606. he's on the west coast, but it's a hell of a deal!

if you want advice about ovens, i'm not your guy. just stumbled upon the oven in town and it was the right price.

Nick Gore - just a dough eyed wanderer

Offline pizza dr

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 338
  • Location: Las Cruces New Mexico
Re: Anyone Take the VPN Course in LA?
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2012, 02:58:19 PM »
Personally I would spend the money on the oven.  Going into a course cold with absolutely no experience with a WFO would be fruitless. 

Get an oven and start cooking away.  Then after a year or so if you feel like you want to up your game, then maybe consider it.  My guess is that if you lurk around this site long enough you will feel that you don't need the course. 

Scot

Offline RobynB

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 593
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Scotts Valley, CA
Re: Anyone Take the VPN Course in LA?
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2012, 04:07:14 PM »
I debated about taking an expensive course first, and decided to spend the money on the oven.  I'm happy with the results  :D  If I was planning to open a restaurant, I would probably take a professional course, but for home use, I think you can learn plenty here.  And having a WFO is so worth it! 

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 8204
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Anyone Take the VPN Course in LA?
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2012, 04:17:00 PM »
I'm happy with the results  :D 

+1
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 4895
Re: Anyone Take the VPN Course in LA?
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2012, 05:18:27 PM »
Dan, do you have professional aspirations or was the impetus to take this class just to bring your home game to the next level?

If you don't own a WFO, then I definitely agree with everyone else that buying an oven is a far better investment than a class.

One thing to bear in mind when oven shopping- while choosing an oven that's geared towards Neapolitan pizza is important for aspiring home pizza bakers, if you think there's a chance that you might pursue this professionally, then choosing the right oven becomes even more critical. It's a little bit like wanting to become a formula 1 race car but never having driven a car.  Getting a ford focus will, to an extent, help you to learn how to drive a car, but it will only get you so far with your racing aspirations. There's a LOT of ford focus ovens out there- that are wonderful for home bakers, but that can impede the aspiring pro who might want to streamline their education.

There are formula 1 ovens (Ferrara, Acunto), but they will generally cost you a pretty penny.  In theory, one should be able to find Italian-ish ovens made in the U.S. for less money, but, so far, I haven't come across any that have impressed me.  There have been inroads in DIY Italian-ish ovens, so, if you don't have the money for a Ferrara/Acunto, that might be an option, but, that's still, imo, relatively uncharted territory.  Regardless if your aspirations are professional or not, I would do your homework.

Offline pizza dr

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 338
  • Location: Las Cruces New Mexico
Re: Anyone Take the VPN Course in LA?
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2012, 05:43:35 PM »
Scott

Just out of curiosity... what do you think a Formula one oven would cost?  Say an Acunto that I could put in my garage in NM?  Are there importers for such a beast?

Thanks

Scot with one "t" 

Offline andreguidon

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1136
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Sao Paulo
  • Hot WFO always !!!
    • www.andreguidon.com
Re: Anyone Take the VPN Course in LA?
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2012, 05:57:49 PM »
i took the course during a VPN road show here in Sao Paulo, Brazil. my teacher was Giulio Adriani, and i have learned allot with him, specially because of allot of questions i had, but i also learned allot here and researching the web (youtube!!!).
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci

Offline BrickStoneOven

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1521
  • Location: Boston
Re: Anyone Take the VPN Course in LA?
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2012, 06:25:22 PM »
Scott

Just out of curiosity... what do you think a Formula one oven would cost?  Say an Acunto that I could put in my garage in NM?  Are there importers for such a beast?

Thanks

Scot with one "t" 
It depends on the size your looking for. If your looking for a 120cm or 130cm SF it will cost you around $6500-$7000 euros. Then there is the shipping. I got quoted $1900 euros to my address in MA. Then there's insurance and taxes. Then you have installation costs. All said and done probably $15k-$20k.

Offline pizza dr

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 338
  • Location: Las Cruces New Mexico
Re: Anyone Take the VPN Course in LA?
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2012, 07:15:44 PM »
It depends on the size your looking for. If your looking for a 120cm or 130cm SF it will cost you around $6500-$7000 euros. Then there is the shipping. I got quoted $1900 euros to my address in MA. Then there's insurance and taxes. Then you have installation costs. All said and done probably $15k-$20k.

wow... I think I will wait until some pizza joint goes out of business!

Offline scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 4895
Re: Anyone Take the VPN Course in LA?
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2012, 09:33:12 PM »
Yup, if you want a formula 1 oven, you've got to pay a formula 1 price.

It's still a bit untested, but, for those with DIY skills, I think this is a much more affordable approach to take:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13681.80.html

Offline thinkisgood

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3
Re: Anyone Take the VPN Course in LA?
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2012, 06:49:46 PM »
Dan,

I took the class a couple months back.  It's a good course, though it is definitely on the expensive side for just 3 days.  Part of what made me take it is that I live in LA, so no airfare, hotel, rental car, etc. on top of the course cost.  I think for most members on this board, it's not worth it as there is a wealth of information here and it's free.  In my opinion, the course is mainly for people who have little to no experience making pizza. Jose and Pepe will answer any and all questions that you have and they do have a lot of experience, so you still do learn a good amount. 

Justin

Offline djamc

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 39
Re: Anyone Take the VPN Course in LA?
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2012, 10:07:47 PM »
Yeah, my girlfriend lives in LA, so I'm out there a lot, and am actually heading out there on wed.  I'm out of work right now after the finance firm I was working for went bankrupt...  I have another job oppty in NY, but  toying with the idea of getting into the pizza biz on the West Coast...  Prbly making NY-style pizza 7-days a week and neopolitan thurs - sat nights...

I thought the course would give me a feel for how much I would enjoy making pizza for hours on end day after day...  How many pizzas were u able to make on a given day?  We're u making pizzas each day?  Also, we're u making the mozz from mozz curds, or from scratch?

Thanks,

Dan
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 10:11:03 PM by djamc »

Offline Tscarborough

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2478
  • Location: Austin, TX
    • Pizza Anarchy
Re: Anyone Take the VPN Course in LA?
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2012, 10:14:22 PM »
I would not even consider it until I was certain that I could already produce VPN certifiable pies.  The cost is not to teach you anything, because you can not learn to make pizza in 3 days or a week or a month, it is simply payola to get the rubber stamp from a dubious certification organization.  Spend 1500 bucks on flour and turn that into dough and you will be better served.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 10:16:54 PM by Tscarborough »

Offline thezaman

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1529
  • Age: 59
  • Location: ohio
  • I Love Pizza!
    • lorenzos pizza
Re: Anyone Take the VPN Course in LA?
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2012, 12:05:42 AM »
 i took the course three years ago. it was nice working in a restaurant setting. jose barrios was a great teacher. the new program is now without a restaurant . it is a training center exclusively.i think jose is still involved and that is a positive.they also have a new oven that has better dimensions for cooking pizza. i had been cooking in my oven for a few months before i went so the actual taste was not any different then mine. i did learn different stretching methods as well as sauce prep, dough prep, cheese making and oven management. this will be helpful if you are going into  business.owning a oven so that you can practice what you learn is important.if you are doing it for home pizza improvement they cannot match, some of the guys on this forum for their knowledge,plus every one is willing to help.
 the big thing i found from my neapolitan quest is that it is a simple product and you can get close to most neapolitan pizzerias in taste. the difference in taste is caused by ingredient choices and dough making method. there is an amazing amount of information in this forum
 the fun part of the process in the experimentation.

Offline PizzaVera

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 203
  • Location: Pizza Heaven
Re: Anyone Take the VPN Course in LA?
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2012, 01:05:32 AM »
I think if you really don't know anything about pizza, fermentation, doughs, sauces, cooking, then it's very important you learn to do it the right way from the get go, 3 days will be enough to teach you the basics and the right method to go about making pizza, but the perfection  and mastery will come later as you spend hours on end at the oven perfecting your pizzas.
but it's best  to learn the right way, than buying a WFO and doing it the wrong way for years to come sure you can learn from home not knowing a thing, come on this site, buy books, you tube etc.. you have options.