Author Topic: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market (Read 23216 times)

norma427 · « **Reply #180 on:** April 18, 2012, 08:17:08 AM »

Norma

norma427 · « **Reply #181 on:** April 18, 2012, 08:17:51 AM »

Norma

norma427 · « **Reply #182 on:** April 18, 2012, 08:20:10 AM »

For a long while I had wanted to try some kind of Lehmann dough and try to roll it out thin to see what would happen. I took a small Lehmann dough ball (the same one day cold fermented Lehmann dough I am now using for pizzas) and rolled it out as thin as I could. I then docked the skin heavily, put it into a cutter pan and cut off the excess skin. It was then par-baked. The pizza was dressed with sauce, a blend of part-skim mozzarella and muenster cheese, baked applewood bacon and some fresh chives and Greek oregano from my garden. I must say the taste of the dressings were really good. The muenster cheese added with the part-skim mozzarella gave a nice taste to the dressings.

Norma

norma427 · « **Reply #183 on:** April 18, 2012, 08:21:27 AM »

Norma

norma427 · « **Reply #184 on:** April 18, 2012, 08:22:58 AM »

Norma

norma427 · « **Reply #185 on:** April 18, 2012, 08:23:53 AM »

Norma

norma427 · « **Reply #186 on:** April 18, 2012, 08:24:51 AM »

Norma

norma427 · « **Reply #187 on:** April 18, 2012, 08:25:44 AM »

Norma

norma427 · « **Reply #188 on:** April 18, 2012, 08:54:40 AM »

These are some pizzas made with the one day cold fermented Lehmann dough yesterday.

Norma

norma427 · « **Reply #189 on:** April 18, 2012, 08:55:53 AM »

Norma

norma427 · « **Reply #190 on:** April 18, 2012, 08:57:01 AM »

Norma

norma427 · « **Reply #191 on:** April 18, 2012, 08:58:01 AM »

Norma

The Dough Doctor · « **Reply #192 on:** April 18, 2012, 09:27:08 AM »

Norma;
We did a study on the use of semolina flour in pizza dough a number of years ago. We found that for all practical purposes, 25% substitution was the maximum we could go before the finished crust became excessively tough and chewy. We thought 15% was a good working level. Because the semolina flour has a much larger particle size it is slower to hydrate than regular flour, so care must be taken to ensure the dough is properly hydrated. At first the dough will appear to be wet and sticky, but just like with a whole-grain dough, it will improve as the semolina hydrates. We did not detect an appreciable change in flavor when the semolina flour was used. As to using semolina flour either in part, or in total as a peel dust, because of its slow hydration it works great. I use a blend of equal parts regular flour, semolina flour, and fine corn meal as my "go to" peel dust, and I've never had any problems with the dough skin sticking to the peel if I did my part.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

johnnydoubleu · « **Reply #193 on:** April 18, 2012, 12:29:35 PM »

Tom, that is why "durum flour" is being suggested and not coarse semolina. A few posts earlier in this thread and you will see that I unequivocally proved that up to 100% durum can be used and that the results are pretty spectacular.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18407.msg183180.html#msg183180

johnnydoubleu · « **Reply #194 on:** April 18, 2012, 12:40:51 PM »

Quote from: JimmyG on April 17, 2012, 04:52:50 PM

Great job John. That pie looks truly outstanding, I wish I was there to enjoy it. BTW what did you use for a thickness factor, I love how thin that is?

Wish you could have enjoyed the pie with us too, Jim.

I mostly just do it by how big a dough ball I know I need for a certain diameter and thickness/thinness. The dough ball was 400 grams or so.

Quote from: norma427 on April 17, 2012, 09:31:18 PM

John,

Wow, a 100% durum flour pizza! Your pizza sure looks very good. Interesting to hear it bended without breaking and folded unlike any other thin crust pizza you have ever made. Great job! Did you have any trouble opening the dough ball? I like the color of your rim crust and bottom crust.

Norma

The dough wasn't hard to open but that is a result of a variety of factors: light mixing, lots of time for full hyrdation and ample rest/proofing.

Quote from: jever4321 on April 17, 2012, 09:45:14 PM

Pie looks great!

Apprecated!

norma427 · « **Reply #195 on:** April 18, 2012, 05:49:10 PM »

Quote from: The Dough Doctor on April 18, 2012, 09:27:08 AM

Norma;
We did a study on the use of semolina flour in pizza dough a number of years ago. We found that for all practical purposes, 25% substitution was the maximum we could go before the finished crust became excessively tough and chewy. We thought 15% was a good working level. Because the semolina flour has a much larger particle size it is slower to hydrate than regular flour, so care must be taken to ensure the dough is properly hydrated. At first the dough will appear to be wet and sticky, but just like with a whole-grain dough, it will improve as the semolina hydrates. We did not detect an appreciable change in flavor when the semolina flour was used. As to using semolina flour either in part, or in total as a peel dust, because of its slow hydration it works great. I use a blend of equal parts regular flour, semolina flour, and fine corn meal as my "go to" peel dust, and I've never had any problems with the dough skin sticking to the peel if I did my part.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Tom,

Thanks so much for posting about the study you did on semolina flour in pizza dough a number of years ago. When I mixed my two doughs I let the dough rest before adding more water, but probably didn’t let it rest enough to make sure it was properly hydrated. I think I probably over mixed too, because I sure didn’t know what I was doing. My two doughs were so dry at first that I also wasn’t sure how much water to add, because I then had the oil to add too. Interesting that the study didn’t show an appreciable change in flavor when semolina flour was used. I don’t have any idea if I will try to incorporate any semolina flour (durum flour) in my doughs for market. It is all a learning experience for me. I haven’t worked that much with whole-grain doughs either, so I have a lot to learn about them too.

If you look back in this thread you can see I was confused about what really is durum flour and what is semolina and if they are one in the same or really different. Can you clarify if you were posting about the fine durum flour or the coarse semolina? As you can see I am still confused.

I think what I have is fine durum flour. What kind or brand of semolina was used in the study at AIB?

I also appreciate your tip about using the semolina flour as part of the mix for peel flour and the non sticking of that mix.

I probably will test that soon too.

Norma

norma427 · « **Reply #196 on:** April 18, 2012, 05:55:27 PM »

John,

The pizza you accomplished with 100% durum flour was simply amazing.

I don’t think any other member used 100% durum flour before and had such great results. It shows you know what you are doing when mixing your dough. Congrats!

Can you post up your formulation and exact methods for anyone that is interested?

Norma

johnnydoubleu · « **Reply #197 on:** April 18, 2012, 07:20:48 PM »

Quote from: norma427 on April 18, 2012, 05:55:27 PM

Can you post up your formulation and exact methods for anyone that is interested?

Norma, I did what I usually do...mix all the dry ingredients together in a big bowl and then add cold NYC tap water to the bowl. I stir it together and then let it sit. I then "turn" it Tartine style periodically (what I call low-knead -- seems more accurate than the erroneous "no-knead") but not too much. I to try ball it early enough that when I go to open the dough it is adequately relaxed so that it opens easily. When I ball the dough I make sure that it is pretty smooth and silky as well. This 100% durum dough was a little bit north of 70% hydration.

What I find is that listening to the dough/watching the dough makes for a much better dough than just forcing a certain mixing method and/or timeline on things. I would rather undermix than over, so I virtually never use a mixer or any mechanical method.

norma427 · « **Reply #198 on:** April 18, 2012, 07:38:39 PM »

Quote from: johnnydoubleu on April 18, 2012, 07:20:48 PM

Norma, I did what I usually do...mix all the dry ingredients together in a big bowl and then add cold NYC tap water to the bowl. I stir it together and then let it sit. I then "turn" it Tartine style periodically (what I call low-knead -- seems more accurate than the erroneous "no-knead") but not too much. I to try ball it early enough that when I go to open the dough it is adequately relaxed so that it opens easily. When I ball the dough I make sure that it is pretty smooth and silky as well. This 100% durum dough was a little bit north of 70% hydration.

What I find is that listening to the dough/watching the dough makes for a much better dough than just forcing a certain mixing method and/or timeline on things. I would rather undermix than over, so I virtually never use a mixer or any mechanical method.

John,

Thanks so much for posting your mixing methods and hydration. I can see you understand a lot about making dough. Your method of listening to the dough and watching it is very interesting. You sure are a pro!

It is so nice that you don’t need a time reference and can just go by feel and knowledge of how you dough works. I really like your hand mixing.

Norma

norma427 · « **Reply #199 on:** April 19, 2012, 05:37:02 PM »

I think for my next attempt at another dough for market I will try this flour.

Norma