Author Topic: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market  (Read 48602 times)

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Online Pete-zza

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #480 on: August 08, 2012, 07:55:46 AM »
Norma,

How did you and your taste testers like the pizza? To my eye, it looks very good for a NY style. Do you plan to continue to test the Briess sweet white sorghum syrup?

Peter


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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #481 on: August 08, 2012, 11:02:19 AM »
Norma,

How did you and your taste testers like the pizza? To my eye, it looks very good for a NY style. Do you plan to continue to test the Briess sweet white sorghum syrup?

Peter


Peter,

My taste testers did like the pizza made with the Briess syrup, but they couldnít notice a big difference in the taste.  Steve and I liked the Briess syrup pizza.  I like how the crust was moist how the rim crust and bottom crust browned.  I do plan on testing the Briess sorghum syrup more.  I am wondering how the Briess sweet sorghum syrup would work with the GM Full Strength flour.  Do you think I would need to decrease the hydration some, in the formulation, if I tried the Briess syrup with GM Full Strength flour?  I would like to try to achieve a pizza with a little less chew.  Do you have any idea of why I achieved different results yesterday.

I find it interesting that even my taste testers really canít tell a lot of differences when I try something a little different in the Lehmann dough.  Steve and I can always pick out the differences.  I also think most of my customers are like my taste testers.   

There was an interesting man at market in the morning.  I saw him stop and look at my pizzas in the display case.  He then went on, but when I looked up in the aisle, he was taking pictures.  I just gave him a weird look, because I really donít mind someone taking pictures, but I am curious as why they would be taking pictures.  He then came back to my stand and said my pizzas looked so good.  He said he had tried making pizzas so many times and never could get them right.  I told him to look here on the forum and most of what I have done is here on the forum and there are many helpful members on the forum that would help him learn how to make pizzas.  I told him this is where I learned to make different pizzas.  He then wanted to take a picture of me holding a pizza I just took out of the oven.  I asked the man if he wasnít ever at Rootís before.  He said he is from Holland and this was the first time he was in Pa.  He said he has visited the US before, but never was in Pa.  I asked him what he thought of the Amish and Mennonites.  He then asked me how do they get to market when he didnít see any horse and buggies at market.  I told him drivers bring them to market.  He said he thought that was almost like cheating since they donít believe in driving cars.  I then told him many drivers do take the Amish to market and other places they want to go.  I also told him many Amish people come from about an hour away from market and if they had to come by horse and buggy, it would probably take them most of a day just to get to market.   :-D   

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #482 on: August 08, 2012, 11:10:07 AM »
Peter,

I just thought about something I did different in my last attempt.  I did mix the oil with the water, which I usually do last.  I also used vegetable oil instead of olive oil, because I was out of olive oil at home.  Do you think either things of what I did differently affected my results?  I was just trying to think about why my results weren't the same.

Norma
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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #483 on: August 08, 2012, 12:01:31 PM »
I do plan on testing the Briess sorghum syrup more.  I am wondering how the Briess sweet sorghum syrup would work with the GM Full Strength flour.  Do you think I would need to decrease the hydration some, in the formulation, if I tried the Briess syrup with GM Full Strength flour?  I would like to try to achieve a pizza with a little less chew.  Do you have any idea of why I achieved different results yesterday.

Norma,

I have concluded that your market is not conducive to doing a lot of testing, because of the way that the variables at market can affect the results of your pizzas. Also, you do so much experimentation that it is difficult to intimately learn what each experiment means and how it can be reproduced. As for your taste testers, they may actually be the better ones to comment on the results of your experiments since they do not know what you did to the doughs, or so I am assuming. When you know what you have done, there is a tendency to look for it in the results. It is possible, and quite common, to think you found what you were looking for but, in reality, you found something else.

As for the changes you propose to make, I don't see any harm in using the GM Full Strength flour. If the last flour you used was a high-gluten flour, then simply switching to the Full Strength flour alone should make the finished crust less chewy. And, if you keep the hydration value the same, I think that will reduce the chewiness a bit further because it is higher than the absorption value of the Full Strength flour. For an even further reduction in chewiness, you can also increase the amount of the Briess sorghum syrup, say, to 2%, and/or increase the amount of oil. These latter changes will increase the "wetness" of the dough (the increased amount of the Briess sorghum syrup will add a fraction of a percent to the hydration value), but so long as you can handle the dough and the skin made from it, I think you should be OK.

I just thought about something I did different in my last attempt.  I did mix the oil with the water, which I usually do last.  I also used vegetable oil instead of olive oil, because I was out of olive oil at home.  Do you think either things of what I did differently affected my results?  I was just trying to think about why my results weren't the same.

I do not think that those changes should have affected the results, especially at the low levels of oil you used.

Peter

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #484 on: August 08, 2012, 01:04:25 PM »
Norma,

I have concluded that your market is not conducive to doing a lot of testing, because of the way that the variables at market can affect the results of your pizzas. Also, you do so much experimentation that it is difficult to intimately learn what each experiment means and how it can be reproduced. As for your taste testers, they may actually be the better ones to comment on the results of your experiments since they do not know what you did to the doughs, or so I am assuming. When you know what you have done, there is a tendency to look for it in the results. It is possible, and quite common, to think you found what you were looking for but, in reality, you found something else.

As for the changes you propose to make, I don't see any harm in using the GM Full Strength flour. If the last flour you used was a high-gluten flour, then simply switching to the Full Strength flour alone should make the finished crust less chewy. And, if you keep the hydration value the same, I think that will reduce the chewiness a bit further because it is higher than the absorption value of the Full Strength flour. For an even further reduction in chewiness, you can also increase the amount of the Briess sorghum syrup, say, to 2%, and/or increase the amount of oil. These latter changes will increase the "wetness" of the dough (the increased amount of the Briess sorghum syrup will add a fraction of a percent to the hydration value), but so long as you can handle the dough and the skin made from it, I think you should be OK.

I do not think that those changes should have affected the results, especially at the low levels of oil you used.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for your honest opinion that you donít think my market setting is the best place to conduct experiments.  I know I do way too many experiments trying to find something that is better for market, but in reality I donít get very far.  My taste testers do generally know I did something different, but donít know what I did different in my experiments.  I would think that my taste testers would be like my customers though.  Even when I changed from the preferment Lehmann dough, I didnít have one customer think I changed something.  My new customers and my old ones just like the pizzas I make.  I guess that is because there arenít a lot of pizzerias in our area that might cold ferment dough, or have different other amounts of ingredients.  I am not sure of that though. 

After the experiments with GM Full Strength flour I will stop experimenting.  I did use Kyrol flour in my last experiment have been using Kyrol flour for awhile. I am not sure what flour I want to stay with right now.  I would like to switch back to KASL, but that flour is about 9.00 a 50 lb. bag more expensive than the Kyrol flour or the GM Full Strength.  Since I am such a small operation, that is why I am trying to keep my flour costs down.  If I had to pick and price would be no problem, I would use KASL.  I also wonder how much cheese and the other ingredient prices are going to go up because of the droughts in the US. 

I think I am going to lower the hydration a little with GM Full Strength, because the dough did feel wet when using Kyrol flour with the Briess syrup.  Which do you really suggest changing upward, the Briess sorghum syrup or the amount of oil, or show I just try something?   

Thanks for also telling me that you donít think the changes I did in my last experiment made any difference.

Norma       
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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #485 on: August 08, 2012, 01:38:42 PM »
I think I am going to lower the hydration a little with GM Full Strength, because the dough did feel wet when using Kyrol flour with the Briess syrup.  Which do you really suggest changing upward, the Briess sorghum syrup or the amount of oil, or show I just try something?   

Norma,

As between increasing the amount of Briess sorghum syrup and the amount of oil, I think I would go with the Briesse sorghum syrup, if only to see what happens when you use more of it.

Peter

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #486 on: August 08, 2012, 03:22:04 PM »
Norma,

As between increasing the amount of Briess sorghum syrup and the amount of oil, I think I would go with the Briesse sorghum syrup, if only to see what happens when you use more of it.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for posting to try more of the Briess sorghum syrup.  Do you have any amount in mind to try.

Norma
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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #487 on: August 08, 2012, 03:26:10 PM »
Thanks for posting to try more of the Briess sorghum syrup.  Do you have any amount in mind to try.

Norma,

I was thinking of about 2%.

Peter

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #488 on: August 08, 2012, 03:53:38 PM »
Norma,

I was thinking of about 2%.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for you thought on what to use.  I will try 2% of the Briess sorghum syrup in the next attempt.

Norma
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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #489 on: August 08, 2012, 08:50:16 PM »
These are just two pictures of a regular Lehmann dough pie baked not long after the Briess sweet sorghum Lehmann dough pie. 

Norma
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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #490 on: August 11, 2012, 10:55:53 PM »
Norma - that pizza looks amazing! Good job.
Marie

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #491 on: August 11, 2012, 11:17:07 PM »
Norma - that pizza looks amazing! Good job.

Marie,

Thanks for you kind words!  :)

Norma
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Offline eiram21

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #492 on: August 11, 2012, 11:21:44 PM »
I'm curious - what kind of cheese are you using these days? My mouth is watering..lol
Marie

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #493 on: August 11, 2012, 11:53:06 PM »
I'm curious - what kind of cheese are you using these days? My mouth is watering..lol

Marie,

I use a blend of two cheeses from my distributor.  I used them 50/50.  The one is Foremost Farms 1950 brand part-skim and the other is Bella Fran whole milk low moisture.

Norma
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Offline eiram21

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #494 on: August 12, 2012, 10:54:55 AM »
Thanks, Norma. I used a blend on the last pie that I made - just a pizza cheese "artisan blend" from the BJs Wholesale club and it was really good. I think I'm going to stick with using blends for a while. I'm finding that 100% mozzarella can be rather bland at times...
Marie

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #495 on: August 12, 2012, 01:10:17 PM »
Thanks, Norma. I used a blend on the last pie that I made - just a pizza cheese "artisan blend" from the BJs Wholesale club and it was really good. I think I'm going to stick with using blends for a while. I'm finding that 100% mozzarella can be rather bland at times...

Marie,

I you are adventurous in wanting to try different blends of cheeses on pizza, there are many you can try.  Other members also have tried different blends of cheeses.  I do like all cheddar on pizza.  If you want, you could try mild or medium, or even sharp cheddar mixed with mozzarella.  It will oil off more if you like a pizza that is a little greasier, because of the higher fat content of cheddar.  I have also tried the Grande blend of mozzarella, cheddar and provolone, which is very good in my opinion.  As you can see, the varieties of cheeses are endless for pizza.  I have seen posters here on the forum say that the mozzarellas they use are bland sometimes.  I have talked to my distributor about what different pizzerias use as cheeses on pizzas, and you might be surprised that different pizzerias do use blends of cheeses.  Provolone is one cheese that different pizzerias add.  I did add a little cheddar to my blend at one time and thought it was good.  Cheddar tends to run a little higher in  price though.

Norma 
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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #496 on: August 12, 2012, 02:31:43 PM »
Hi Norma,
I do love cheddar cheese on my pizza too! There are some brands that are better than others. I haven't made good note of what cheeses I like and which I don't because I've been so stuck on the crust for these past few years - the cheese is usually a bit of an afterthought. I think I can finally move on to concentrate on cheeses and sauces...yay! LOL

Marie
Marie

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #497 on: August 12, 2012, 02:57:42 PM »
Hi Norma,
I do love cheddar cheese on my pizza too! There are some brands that are better than others. I haven't made good note of what cheeses I like and which I don't because I've been so stuck on the crust for these past few years - the cheese is usually a bit of an afterthought. I think I can finally move on to concentrate on cheeses and sauces...yay! LOL

Marie


Marie,

I agree, that are some brands of cheddar that are better than others.  If you look at the boardwalk thread, you can see how many cheddars I have tried on that thread if you are into reading a lot.  :-D http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.0.html  I would say the boardwalk pizza is like a NY style pizza in my opinion. 

Did you try the Classico tomato sauces from Walmart?  There are many members that like those products.  6-in-1s and Classico are about the same.

Good luck in all of your adventures in learning about pizzas!  :)

Norma
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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #498 on: August 12, 2012, 10:29:15 PM »
Hi Norma,
No - I did not try the Classico from Walmart. I will make note to buy some. Thanks so much for the recommendation though.

Interesting to hear that you also found a big difference among the various brands of cheddar cheese. I do recall that there was one that I really liked, but because I didn't make a note of it, I'll have to start from square one! If I recall correctly, there was a mild white cheddar that acme sells (generic). I think I'll give that a go sometime, although the artisan blend that I spoke of in my reply above was pretty darn good too (it didn't have the cheddar though, which I do love). I'll have to do a side by side taste test with the family this week.

And yes, I feel the NJ boardwalk is quite similar to NY-style.
Marie

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #499 on: August 12, 2012, 10:51:16 PM »
Hi Norma,
No - I did not try the Classico from Walmart. I will make note to buy some. Thanks so much for the recommendation though.

Interesting to hear that you also found a big difference among the various brands of cheddar cheese. I do recall that there was one that I really liked, but because I didn't make a note of it, I'll have to start from square one! If I recall correctly, there was a mild white cheddar that acme sells (generic). I think I'll give that a go sometime, although the artisan blend that I spoke of in my reply above was pretty darn good too (it didn't have the cheddar though, which I do love). I'll have to do a side by side taste test with the family this week.

And yes, I feel the NJ boardwalk is quite similar to NY-style.

Marie,

I did try the Acme brand of cheddar on the boardwalk thread and thought it was very good.  Cracker Barrel cheddar is also very good in my opinion baked on a pizza.  I have been purchasing AMPI mild white cheddar, but think it needs to be purchased though a distributor. 

I found many cheddars I did like, but for the boardwalk thread, there is a certain flavor profile I am after.  That is why I tried so many cheddars. 

Most blends like your artisan blend you spoke of are also good.  Let your family help you decide what kinds of cheeses they like when they are baked on a pizza. 

If you use the search function you can find where different members posted about the different Classico products. 

Norma
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