Author Topic: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market  (Read 53389 times)

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Online norma427

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #80 on: April 10, 2012, 06:55:06 AM »
This is a picture of how the dough ball is fermenting this morning.  I am not sure if it seems to be fermenting right or not.

Norma
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Offline johnnydoubleu

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #81 on: April 10, 2012, 02:57:37 PM »
The idea of this older style of NYC thin crust is interesting. I can't help but think of bands I have loved that made it big. Always thought they were better back in the day -- even if they weren't.

Anyway. Norma I agree with most of what Peter is suggesting though I would cut to the chase and use a flour around 12-13% protein (like KA AP or Heckers) that is unbromated and unbleached. Bromated flour just brings virtually nothing to the table and it is nice, IMO, to not have to even worry about it at all. Go with the straight dough as virtually no one can tell the difference (and even if they could does that make one better?). It is not a big deal. As Peter pointed out (and has been my experience as well) preferments have a lot do with scheduling and less that they are superior in every regard. If I want to make good pizza same day I use a preferment of some kind. If I have time, might as well let time and nature do the work for you and extend the ferment. I'd rather my pizza dough be under than overmixed.

Online norma427

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #82 on: April 10, 2012, 09:25:24 PM »
johnnydoubleu,

I also think the idea of a older style of NYC thin crust is interesting, but really donít know of anyone that has really tasted one.  I donít know if these experiments will show or not that the older style of NYC will be better or not. 

Thanks for your tip about what kind of flours to try and also your experiences with using a preferment. 

Norma
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Online norma427

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #83 on: April 10, 2012, 09:28:13 PM »
The second pre-1970ís pizza attempt was made today and it did turned out better in oven spring and overall better than last week, but it still wasnít near as good as the 1 day cold fermented Lehmann dough.  The crust did have some more taste  (I guess from the regular salt), but didnít have as good of flavor as the regular Lehman crusts. The bottom crust was also less crispy than last week.

Video of Steve cutting the pizza with a pizza cutter. 



Norma
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Online norma427

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #84 on: April 10, 2012, 09:30:17 PM »
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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #85 on: April 10, 2012, 09:31:38 PM »
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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #86 on: April 10, 2012, 09:32:32 PM »
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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #87 on: April 10, 2012, 09:33:30 PM »
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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #88 on: April 10, 2012, 09:34:27 PM »
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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #89 on: April 10, 2012, 09:54:52 PM »
These pictures are of some of the pizzas made today with the one day cold fermented Lehmann dough.

Norma
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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #90 on: April 10, 2012, 09:55:57 PM »
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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #91 on: April 10, 2012, 09:57:34 PM »
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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #92 on: April 10, 2012, 09:58:34 PM »
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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #93 on: April 10, 2012, 09:59:43 PM »
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Offline franko9752

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #94 on: April 10, 2012, 10:04:33 PM »
Looks like the Lehmanns 1 day might work for you Norma.  Nice pics btw.

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #95 on: April 10, 2012, 10:49:34 PM »
Looks like the Lehmanns 1 day might work for you Norma.  Nice pics btw.

franko9752,

So far the one day Lehmann dough is working okay for me.  Steve and I tasted one slice from one of the pies today and thought the crust tasted like a longer fermented dough.  Sure don't know why that is. 

Thanks for saying you liked the pictures.  :)

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #96 on: April 11, 2012, 08:47:53 AM »
Norma,

Can you please provide a link to the one-day Lehmann dough that you have been testing? Is it the one at Reply 940 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg175315.html#msg175315? Also, have you been using the KASL for that dough?

Peter

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #97 on: April 11, 2012, 09:08:32 AM »
Norma,

Can you please provide a link to the one-day Lehmann dough that you have been testing? Is it the one at Reply 940 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg175315.html#msg175315? Also, have you been using the KASL for that dough?

Peter

Peter,

The formulation that I have been using for the last few weeks was modified from the link you posted.  I  lowered the oil amount to about 2.2% olive oil and also lowered the sugar amount.  I donít have the print out of exactly what I have been using for the last few weeks because it is at market.  If you want me to get the print out when I am go to market I can copy it and post it.  This week I changed the flour to Kyrol flour just to see what would happen.

Norma
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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #98 on: April 11, 2012, 09:59:25 AM »
Norma,

It won't be necessary to retrieve the printout of the Lehmann one-day dough. From what you have said, it does not appear that the dough you have been testing with the Occident flour is a lot different from the Lehmann one-day dough. Maybe it is the KASL or the Kyrol flour and/or the increased amount of salt (Kosher) that is giving you the flavor that you prefer. Both of those flours have more protein, and more protein means more taste (and color as well).

One thought that occurred to me, however, is to consider using some semolina flour. That is not something that the early NYC pizza makers might have used, based solely on what I have read, but I found that semolina flour is a nice addition to a dough. I discovered that when I was making clones of the Papa Gino's pizzas as sold in the Northeast part of the country. The idea came from a former Papa Gino's worker who said that she thought that Papa Gino's was using semolina as part of a flour blend (it later turned out that PG was using bleached and bromated Spring King Spring Patent flour, and no semolina). In my case, I used 15% semolina and 85% King Arthur bread flour. I described my results at Reply 79 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg71404.html#msg71404. One of the nice side benefits of that blend is that the leftover PG clone slices reheated beautifully, as I so noted at Reply 92 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg71635.html#msg71635.

Another possible change for you to consider, whether you decide to use semolina or not, or whether you decide to switch to the KASL or Kyrol or not, is to reduce the amount of yeast and let the dough rest for about an hour or so before refrigerating. That should give the dough more fermentation byproducts that contribute to crust flavor. Using a longer temper time, if that is doable, would have a similar effect.

Peter

Offline communist

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #99 on: April 11, 2012, 10:19:52 AM »
Norma, my mouth is watering while looking at your pies.  We ordered from a pizza place rated "best in the area" last night, and the pie was just plain bad - a dry, thick crust, and clumps of melted american cheese across the top - oh my poor belly!   My entire family rated it poor.  Keep baking those pies.  We will be back!  Mark