the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market

[franko9752]

I have been sticking to a .25-.3% idy, 1.75-2% salt and 1%oil latley and have been using 59% water and usually a 2 day cold ferment  and since it is warmer out side i have had sticking problems too and softer skins. will be going back to 58% or lower hydration for the warmer weather. I never have any luck with 60% or higher hydration due to softer dough which makes it stickier and have to shape it quicker. I notice alot of the forum uses 62% and up for hydration so i hope i am not missing something. Hope this makes sence. I like a firmer dough and the quality of the crust is not that much diff. My crusts do taste pretty good. I usually take the dough out of the cooler 1 1/2 -2 hours before baking and juggle with them in and out of the cooler as the night goes on. Seems to be working ok but have only been serving to the public since Jan. and still learning.

[norma427]

I have been sticking to a .25-.3% idy, 1.75-2% salt and 1%oil latley and have been using 59% water and usually a 2 day cold ferment  and since it is warmer out side i have had sticking problems too and softer skins. will be going back to 58% or lower hydration for the warmer weather. I never have any luck with 60% or higher hydration due to softer dough which makes it stickier and have to shape it quicker. I notice alot of the forum uses 62% and up for hydration so i hope i am not missing something. Hope this makes sence. I like a firmer dough and the quality of the crust is not that much diff. My crusts do taste pretty good. I usually take the dough out of the cooler 1 1/2 -2 hours before baking and juggle with them in and out of the cooler as the night goes on. Seems to be working ok but have only been serving to the public since Jan. and still learning.

franko9752,

When I first started making pizza, and didn’t know anything about pizza dough, Peter set-forth a formulation for me just about the same one you are using now.  I am even half embarrassed to link to those posts, because I sure didn’t know anything about pizza dough at that time and kept making so many mistakes.    I since have tried many formulations to be considered for market.  I don’t know why I like higher hydration doughs, but it might be because of the oven spring, moistness in the crumb and what appears to me as a better tasting crust.  I know that is probably taking my pizzas outside of the regular NY style as normally members think about it. I don’t know if I will be able to handle a higher hydration dough when it is warmer, because they do ferment faster when at room temperature, at least for me.  I am always still learning too.

Thanks for posting what you do with your dough in lowering the hydration for use in the summer.  I can imagine your pizzas do taste very good, because you are using a 2 day cold ferment, which leads to a better tasting crust.  Wish I could do a straight Lehmann dough with a 2 day cold ferment.  Interesting that you even have to juggle some dough balls in and out of the fridge as the night goes on. 

Norma   

[Pete-zza]

franko9752,

What you are using is a classic Lehmann NY style dough formulation. That was the dough formulation that I cut my teeth on when I first started playing around with the NY style dough back in 2004 (when I started the Lehmann thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.0.html) and, no doubt, was the reason why I suggested it to Norma. You are correct that on the forum there is a tendency to push the envelope and use fairly high hydration values. It is an approach that is well tolerated in a home setting and even if the failure rate is higher no one gets hurt. However, in a commercial setting, failure at any level is not an option. There are some pizza operators who are able to work with high hydration doughs in a commercial setting but the safer route is to use lower hydration values, especially if the pizza makers are transient, low cost labor workers who are unlikely to stay around long enough to master working with high hydration doughs. Over the years, I have paid close attention in my reading to the hydration levels used by professionals, and I would say that a hydration value of around 57-60% is pretty much the working range of hydration values for commercial New York style doughs.

Peter

[franko9752]

Thanks Norma and Pete! I follow you guys all the time.           

[norma427]

Thanks Norma and Pete! I follow you guys all the time.

franko9752,

Don't follow me, just follow Peter.  He is the one that knows much more than I do.  I am sorta still a newbie in learning everything. 

Norma

[franko9752]

"I am even half embarrassed to link to those posts, because I sure didn’t know anything about pizza dough at that time and kept making so many mistakes."         Norma, i have read your 1st posts and learned MUCHO from them, nothing to be embarressed of

[norma427]

"I am even half embarrassed to link to those posts, because I sure didn’t know anything about pizza dough at that time and kept making so many mistakes."         Norma, i have read your 1st posts and learned MUCHO from them, nothing to be embarressed of

franko9752,

I am glad you learned from all of my mistakes when I first learned to make pizza dough.  At least someone learned from them.  Whenever I go back to them they sure make me chuckle. 

Norma

[rcbaughn]

Thanks Norma and Pete! I follow you guys all the time.           

franko9752,

Don't follow me, just follow Peter.  He is the one that knows much more than I do.  I am sorta still a newbie in learning everything. 

Norma

Norma you are too modest! I follow you and Peter all the time as well. I absolutely love to see y'alls experiments. I am looking forward to whatever y'all decide to test next in y'alls search for even more wonderful pies.

-Cory

[norma427]

Norma you are too modest! I follow you and Peter all the time as well. I absolutely love to see y'alls experiments. I am looking forward to whatever y'all decide to test next in y'alls search for even more wonderful pies.

-Cory

Cory,

It is Peter that keeps me from going off the cliff.  I may do some wacky experiments, but Peter helps so I don't do something really weird.  Peter is the one that can link to amost anything.  I just follow along.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Cory,

To quote Shakespeare, The lady doth protest too much, methinks. Norma is an extraordinary person, period. And she is is a tireless worker, who will do just about anything for anyone. She does not like math, as she has told us a thousand times, but she makes up for it by having exceptional natural instincts. I don't think I am the only one who tunes into the forum to see what Norma is doing at any given time. She is a valuable asset to the forum.

Peter

[norma427]

I decided to take a leftover frozen dough ball from Tuesday to Steve’s home yesterday to see how it would bake in his WFO while making other Neapolitan pizzas.  The dough ball was unfrozen using my microwave oven. 

Steve had to get his bigger peel for me to launch the pie into his WFO.  Steve told me I would see there are problems trying to launch a pie from a bigger peel into his WFO.  I couldn’t figure out what he meant, but found out when I went to launch the pie.  The peel is almost the same size as the mouth of the oven.  When I went to slide it in and quickly retract the peel, the peel hit the oven arch and made the pie not round and folded under a little.  I quickly learned that loading an 18” pie into a WFO with a bigger peel isn’t the easiest thing to do.   

The pie was just dressed with cheddar cheese, pepperoni and sauce.  Lickety split, almost a coal fired oven pizza from a regular dough ball. Wow, the pie sure wasn’t round, but developed one huge bubble.  I also had problems trying to turn this pie, so one side was baked better than the other.  My regular dough sure tasted different in a WFO.   

Norma 

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Another dough was mixed using the formulation at Reply 237 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18407.msg185082.html#msg185082 today.  I will see if I can get about the same results as last week.  I used GM Full Strength flour again.

Norma

[norma427]

The same formulation I used last week, turned out a lot better this week when making a pizza.  The dough ball fermented well in one day.  The dough ball was only left to warm-up for about 40 minutes.  The dough ball opened up so easily and not much flour was used on the bench or to flour the dough ball.  When it came time to slide it into the oven it went in smoothly without any sticking issues.   The pizza baked very well, had really nice oven spring, a nice moistness in the crust, good bottom crust browning, and a good taste in the crust.  The only thing that could have been a little better was the browning on the rim, but it wasn’t bad.  Steve, my tasters and I enjoyed this pie.

Norma 

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma