Author Topic: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market  (Read 70849 times)

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Online Pete-zza

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #575 on: October 03, 2012, 08:30:34 AM »
I didnít recall John posting about getting bad bags of flour and how he had to constantly adjust his dough formulation from bag to bag of flour.  I guess I could have gotten a bad bag of flour.  I had purchased two bags at the same time, but didnít open the second one yet.  I sure donít want to adjust my dough formulation each time to adapt to the variations in the flour.  I think I was lucky that the dough worked out as well as it did with me just throwing in extra flour.  I was also concerned I was going to overmix the dough, but I guess that didnít happen. 

What do you suggest I do?  I donít want that mess again next week and not being sure I will have dough I can use the next day.

Norma,

My comments on John's experiences with flour variations was intended to apply only to normal flour variations that can occur from lot to lot. A good example of John's discussion on this point can be found in the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5867.msg50238.html#msg50238.

From what I have read, some variations in flours from lot to lot are to be expected. Some of these variations, and also some of their effects on dough made using such flours, are mentioned in the thread referenced above. It is hard to say that your bag of flour is bad but recently members tscaife and Larry (thezaman) apparently got bad bags of flour, as was discussed in the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21139.msg212577.html#msg212577, and a while back member bakerboy (Barry) experienced a problem with his flour, as he noted in Reply 71 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18075.msg188283.html#msg188283.

In your case, you might check with your supplier to see if he has been getting complaints or inquiries from other users about the flours that they have been receiving recently from that supplier. Or you might simply say that your flour is not performing properly and ask for replacement flour.

Peter


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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #576 on: October 03, 2012, 08:37:47 AM »
What would constitute a "bad bag of flour" ?

Bob,

Some examples of bad flour that I can recall off the top of my head include flours that have excessive moisture content, flours that are old and stale, flours that have excessive starch damage, flours that have excessive pest content/damage, and flours that are "green". Flours that are materially out of spec might also be considered to be bad to the extent they adversely affect dough performance.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #577 on: October 03, 2012, 10:32:33 AM »
Norma,

My comments on John's experiences with flour variations was intended to apply only to normal flour variations that can occur from lot to lot. A good example of John's discussion on this point can be found in the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5867.msg50238.html#msg50238.

From what I have read, some variations in flours from lot to lot are to be expected. Some of these variations, and also some of their effects on dough made using such flours, are mentioned in the thread referenced above. It is hard to say that your bag of flour is bad but recently members tscaife and Larry (thezaman) apparently got bad bags of flour, as was discussed in the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21139.msg212577.html#msg212577, and a while back member bakerboy (Barry) experienced a problem with his flour, as he noted in Reply 71 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18075.msg188283.html#msg188283.

In your case, you might check with your supplier to see if he has been getting complaints or inquiries from other users about the flours that they have been receiving recently from that supplier. Or you might simply say that your flour is not performing properly and ask for replacement flour.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for the links about the different flour problems from John, tscaife, Larry, and Bakerboy.  I recall some of those posts.  I know the Power flour also was clumpy, but that flour didnít seem to give me any problems, but then I wasnít mixing in larger batches.

Your idea is good to check with my supplier to see if there are any other complaints with Kyrol recently.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #578 on: October 03, 2012, 05:22:39 PM »
I called my local supplier of Kyrol flour today and she told me no one else complained about the Kyrol flour being different.  She said the one customers does mix the Kyrol in with other flours for pretzels, so that maybe is why he didnít notice any differences.  He purchases Kyrol flour in pallets.  She also said another customer purchases Kryol flour in pallets for buns and he gets a pallet of Kyrol flour every week.  She said he isnít in any more today, but she would check with him if he is having any problems with the Kyrol flour.  I have no idea of how the dough formulation would be for buns.  I will wait and see if I get a call back.

I told the lady at my local supplier that I do use bakerís percents in my formulation for my pizzas.  I also told the lady I had purchased the 2 bags of Kyrol flour last Friday.

Norma

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #579 on: October 08, 2012, 07:03:23 PM »
I sure donít know what the heck is going on, but I call my supplier of Kyrol flour again this morning.  Another customer service lady helped me and said no one had reported any problems with the Kyrol flour.  She even talked to the other lady that I spoke to last week. 

Steve had made 3 dough balls with the Kyrol flour for his brew club and pizza party on Saturday, but no one had time to bake them, or they didnít pick them to be baked, so I donít know what would have happened with them.  I donít know if Steve did anything with those dough balls or not.  Steve did say he had to use a lower hydration when using the Kyrol flour though and also said the Kyrol flour did feel like Caputo flour to him too.

I was about half afraid to go though this same drill this week and not have my doughs right.  I always measure out my flour, water, IDY, salt, sugar, and olive oil on my digital scales.  I know how high the water is supposed to be in the plastic container I use to measure water and also how high the flour should be in the Cambro container.  I wondered what I should do this week.  For the first big batch I did use less water initially, but had to add all the water to make the dough feel right before I added the olive oil.  The flour felt a lot more clumpy this week than last and I sure donít know what caused that change, but that is how it usually feels.  I always measure out each ingredient in containers like they are shown in the pictures below.  I then add the water, then the flour and next the IDY, salt, sugar in 3 places on the flour.  After the dough is mixed to take up the water, then I add the olive oil.  All this only takes about 5-6 minutes to mix my regular doughs in the Hobart on speed one.  Everything went well today and I sure canít understand why I had problems last week, but I sure am happy everything went well today.  My dough balls are always scaled to 1.124 lbs., then balled and oiled, before going into the plastic bags.  My TF on my print out sheet and what I usually use to weigh out my dough balls arenít the same.  I get 18 dough balls out of this size batch with a little extra dough leftover.

These are pictures of two doughs I mixed and the formulation I use for 18 dough balls, if anyone is interested.  If there are any questions, just ask.  I thought I would take pictures of the process in case something went wrong again, so maybe someone could help me with what went wrong.  Pictures of the flour this week too and how it has the clumps now like always.  The second batch I just mixed the whole amount of water in the beginning of the mix.  I only took pictures of the two batches. 

Does anyone have any explanations about what could have happened last week?  That is still a mystery to me and has me stumped.   

It was a lot cooler at market today (50 degrees F) and I had to turn on the little disc heater.

There is also a picture of the new disc shedder that I purchased a few weeks ago for the Pelican head.  It is the same size shedder that I had before, but it is a lot sharper so it grates the cheese better and finer.

Norma   

Offline norma427

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #580 on: October 08, 2012, 07:04:27 PM »
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #581 on: October 08, 2012, 07:05:14 PM »
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #582 on: October 08, 2012, 07:06:29 PM »
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #583 on: October 08, 2012, 07:07:29 PM »
Norma


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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #584 on: October 08, 2012, 07:08:28 PM »
Norma

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #585 on: October 08, 2012, 07:44:49 PM »
Norma,

If it wasn't the flour, maybe the problem is the changing season. I recalled that Tom Lehmann wrote an article at PMQ about the types of problems that commonly arise when the seasons change. I found the link for the article (http://www.pmq.com/mag/2006march/lehmann.php) but it no longer works. This is a problem I have been running into since PMQ went to digital publications. However, I was able to retrieve the old paper magazine article using the Wayback Machine. The archived Wayback Machine version of the article is at http://web.archive.org/web/20100326065639/http://www.pmq.com/mag/2006march/lehmann.php. You should click on the Impatient? link. A lot of the article doesn't apply to your outdoor setting but maybe some of the suggestions that Tom makes still apply to your situation. Since that setting is much different than the typical pizzeria or bakery setting, that might help explain why the Kyrol distributor did not get any complaints from other customers.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #586 on: October 08, 2012, 08:46:35 PM »
Norma,

If it wasn't the flour, maybe the problem is the changing season. I recalled that Tom Lehmann wrote an article at PMQ about the types of problems that commonly arise when the seasons change. I found the link for the article (http://www.pmq.com/mag/2006march/lehmann.php) but it no longer works. This is a problem I have been running into since PMQ went to digital publications. However, I was able to retrieve the old paper magazine article using the Wayback Machine. The archived Wayback Machine version of the article is at http://web.archive.org/web/20100326065639/http://www.pmq.com/mag/2006march/lehmann.php. You should click on the Impatient? link. A lot of the article doesn't apply to your outdoor setting but maybe some of the suggestions that Tom makes still apply to your situation. Since that setting is much different than the typical pizzeria or bakery setting, that might help explain why the Kyrol distributor did not get any complaints from other customers.

Peter


Peter,

Thank you so much for retrieving the old paper magazine article and referencing that article from Tom Lehmann on the Wayback Machine.  That article from Tom does makes sense to me.  Tomís article loaded really fast for me and I didnít have to click the impatient part.  It has really changed in temperatures in our area in the last week.  The humidity when I made my dough last week I really donít recall about, or even the temperature, but today it was really cool and dry at market.  Maybe even moisture got into the Kyrol flour from the rain we had this past week and changed my flour.  I know when I balled the dough balls today, in batches of 18, they had to be balled quickly, or they wanted to dry out really fast and would get a dry skin on the one side that was exposed to the air.  I never noticed the KASL flour changing last year in any way at all, but maybe it did.  I know KASL is made within strict guidelines.  I know my setting at market is a lot different than most pizzerias or bakeries.  I never know what temperature or humidity it will be.  My market setting is like being outside, but at least it doesnít rain inside. 

I was so glad the flour and ingredients to make dough did mix properly today.  I thought I must be going nuts and had somehow lost how to make my normal dough when I know what I usually do.  I know I have made a few mistakes in weighing errors, but nothing like last week.

Norma 

Offline norma427

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #587 on: October 16, 2012, 09:07:54 PM »
I had mixed my doughs this week with adding the salt to the water first.  I also had fun playing with the pizza mold today at market.

Norma

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #588 on: October 16, 2012, 09:08:59 PM »
Norma

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #589 on: October 16, 2012, 09:58:05 PM »
Have you improved your dough as a result of your endless experimentation Norma?

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #590 on: October 16, 2012, 10:03:51 PM »
Have you improved your dough as a result of your endless experimentation Norma?

John,

I am not sure if I improved my dough or not with my endless experimentation.  I am only doing a one day cold fermented Lehmann dough right now for market. 

Norma

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #591 on: October 16, 2012, 10:26:27 PM »
Norma,
Is the pizza molder something you're going to regularly use or do you feel you pretty much already are able to form your pie's satisfactorily without it?
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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #592 on: October 16, 2012, 10:30:46 PM »
John,

I am not sure if I improved my dough or not with my endless experimentation.  I am only doing a one day cold fermented Lehmann dough right now for market.  

Norma
As you know I love to tinker too, I just was hoping you had some firm takeaways in light of all your testing.

It's the journey, not the destination, right? :)

Offline norma427

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #593 on: October 16, 2012, 10:33:14 PM »
Norma,
Is the pizza molder something you're going to regularly use or do you feel you pretty much already are able to form your pie's satisfactorily without it?

Bob,

I don't know if I am going to use the pizza mold regularly or not yet.  I can form my pies, but kinda like the pizza mold for some reason.

Norma

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #594 on: October 16, 2012, 10:37:36 PM »
Kewl.... :chef:
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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #595 on: October 16, 2012, 10:40:40 PM »
As you know I love to tinker too, I just was hoping you had some firm takeaways in light of all your testing.

It's the journey, not the destination, right? :)

John,

I know you love to tinker too.  ;D I really canít say my pizzas I am making now are the best, but my customers like them.  

You are right that it is all about the journey, but sometimes I like to find a new destination I like for pizza.  I guess I am somewhat like you and also trying to come-up with a better pizza, but donít anyways succeed.

This might be off-topic, but did you hear anything from JimmyG?  I have been concerned about him as I havenít seen him on the forum, or posting pies on MPM.  

Norma

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #596 on: October 21, 2012, 08:56:50 PM »
Did you hear anything from JimmyG?
I haven't, but I trust he is just super busy with academic stuff and doesn't have much spare time at the moment.

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #597 on: October 21, 2012, 09:25:47 PM »
I haven't, but I trust he is just super busy with academic stuff and doesn't have much spare time at the moment.

John,

Thanks for telling me that you think Jim is super busy with academic stuff.  I don't know if Jim posted on the epoxy thread, or on Slice, that he had planned to go to NY this past summer.  That is why I wondered why I haven't seen him here on the forum or posting pies on Slice. 

Norma

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #598 on: October 25, 2012, 09:17:09 AM »
This is just another white pizza made with my same one day cold fermented Lehmann dough.  I still find it interesting how the rim crust bakes differently on white pizzas than my regular cheese or meat pizzas.

Norma

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Re: the progress of the regular Lehmann dough for market
« Reply #599 on: November 14, 2012, 09:11:05 PM »
I mixed two different 20 lb. batches of Lehmann dough on Monday, one with using the Kryol flour and one with using the GM Full Strength flour.  They both used exactly the same formulation and method for mixing, scaling and balling.  I did take pictures, but I donít think anyone could tell the differences in the pizzas.  When the GM Full Strength was used the dough balls seemed drier when opening them.  I am not sure if that was from the flour sitting longer or not.  I am going to do the same experiment again this coming Monday and will note if I saw or tasted any differences.

Norma 


 

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