Author Topic: My New York Pizza Experiments  (Read 9380 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

scott123

  • Guest
Re: My New York Pizza Experiments
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2012, 05:01:51 PM »
That's impressive, Jeff. You sound very pleased and I think you have every right to be. That's an amazing looking undercrust.  Not to sound like a broken record here, but I would like you to be able to experience a home baked pie with some char.  Not that you'll end up always charring the undercrust (I don't), but it's a nice occasional variation.

As we move forward, could you start providing pics of your dough going into the fridge, coming out, and pre-forming? If you have a clear container and can show underneath the dough, that would be the most helpful. This crumb has a classic, somewhat bready KABF quality, which makes sense, considering BFB is a KABF clone. You can definitely avoid this breadiness, but you have to really nail the fermentation and the ingredient ratios.

In the photo title it references '2day.'  By '2day' do you mean that you put the dough in the fridge yesterday or was it 48 hours?  Maybe it's the lighting, but it looks a tiny bit young.  If you didn't go a full 48 hours, I would.

We talked about size being a big factor in the magic of NY style pizza, but thickness factor is equally as vital. This forum is overflowing with thick, bready NY-ish crusts, and many people prefer a crust with some heft, but, just like the char, I'd really like to see you try a lower thickness factor at least once. As you go really thin, it can get  a bit dainty, a tiny bit floppier, and it really limits the amounts of toppings you can use- but that's where NY style pizza really shines, imo.


Offline jeffereynelson

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1278
  • Location: Los Angeles
Re: My New York Pizza Experiments
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2012, 05:03:13 PM »
Scott's the guy you want replying to NY-style questions. Not much I can add to his expert advice. Your pie looks great!

CL

Ya you're right and thanks, I just know that about every person on here makes better pizza than me and I love good critique.

scott123

  • Guest
Re: My New York Pizza Experiments
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2012, 05:05:10 PM »
Scott's the guy you want replying to NY-style questions. Not much I can add to his expert advice.

Thanks, Craig. I have an equal amount of respect for you on the Neapolitan side.  When it comes to Neapolitan, you're the man.

scott123

  • Guest
Re: My New York Pizza Experiments
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2012, 05:09:03 PM »
Ya you're right and thanks, I just know that about every person on here makes better pizza than me and I love good critique.

With that last pie, I wouldn't say 'every other person on here makes better pizza.'

Offline jeffereynelson

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1278
  • Location: Los Angeles
Re: My New York Pizza Experiments
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2012, 05:19:50 PM »
Scott- I do know what you mean about the char, and I do really like that flavor too. So you think the only way to make that happen is a steel plate? Do you know of any picture examples of undercrust on a steel plate in a home oven?

As far as the dough, when I make another pizza tomorrow with the last ball, I will take a picture in the container and pre-form.

2 Day means 48 hours. I am labeling them same day, 1day, 2day, and tomorrow will be 3day. (Speaking of this I should probably make a new batch tonight so I have some for 2 days from now) The one mistake I think I made was that I could have turned on the broiler a tiny bit earlier. It takes a bit for my broiler to kick in. I think I should be kicking it about 1:45 into the bake and I should take the pizza out at 3:45-3:50.

Ya I understand you with size. It's a bit hard because I'm not interested in leftovers, I would rather just have a brand new pizza. I have no else to help eat because my wife is sick of me making pizza, not because she doesn't want to eat it, but because she hates to eat so many carbs so often. I'm feeling as the thickness factor of the pies is similar to what I've had before, and if I hold it up the pizza will completely flop. However I do see my cornicone being thicker (and a bit breadier as you mentioned) than the NY style pies I have seen. Do you think both parts are too thick?

Also do you have a sample image of the pizza you're trying to describe that has been made in home oven (if the other pic I asked for doesn't already do this)? I feel seeing one of a similar size would be helpful because always seeing huge NY pies sometimes tricks me into distorting thicknesses.

scott123

  • Guest
Re: My New York Pizza Experiments
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2012, 05:56:59 PM »
Jeff, based upon previous photos, I thought achieving this much undercrust color was a long shot, but you apparently beat those odds.  I think it's pretty obvious that your oven runs a bit hot, because I've never seen that stone produce that much color in 4 minutes in any typical 550 oven.  You've exceeded my expectations so far, so maybe you should keep at it. If this turns out to be as much color as you can get, though, then, yes, steel plate is the best option for getting char.

Here's a good example of the kind of char you can get with steel plate:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12887.msg127366.html#msg127366

Here's another

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17147.0.html

One more:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16428.msg161193.html#msg161193

When I talk about thickness factor, it's mostly directed at rim size.  It's hard to tell, but I think the thickness of your non rim area is good.  But you should definitely consider dialing the rim down a bit.  When you press out the rim, make it pretty small- maybe 1/2" diameter. As you knuckle stretch the pizza, the rim should get even smaller.

Here is a classic NY style thickness factor:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13112.0.html

if you look at it closely, it's less of a pronounced rim, and more of a taper.

Here's how they stretch the pizza




Offline jeffereynelson

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1278
  • Location: Los Angeles
Re: My New York Pizza Experiments
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2012, 06:15:55 PM »
Thanks, awesome feedback. The charring seemed very different in all 3 of the examples and the first looked very neo. I will probably have trouble getting that in my pies on my stone, unless somehow the recipe can change that.

As far as the rim, then ya I see how I am way off compared to that. I can fix it no problem, not sure about tomorrows 280g ball, I may need to go with a dough about 240G to fit it on the peel and stone. I usually have no problems opening a dough and do it very similar to the video, only difference is I let gravity work a bit more and don't pull quite as hard with my knuckles.

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24053
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: My New York Pizza Experiments
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2012, 07:31:42 PM »
Jeff,

You are progressing nicely with Scott’s help and am sure you will achieve the kind of NY style pizza you want with Scott’s help.

I just wanted to show you what my friend Steve (Ev) can do with a cordierite stone in his home oven making NY style pizzas.  Steve’s home oven get to around 550 degrees F.  He bakes NY style pizzas in about 7 minutes and they are delicious.  This is the link to the thread where I tasted Steve’s NY style pizzas in his home oven starting at Reply 6 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17934.msg173823.html#msg173823  Steve usually does a 3 day cold ferment using a Lehmann dough formulation.

Steve also used another Lehmann dough formulation for a bake in his churches oven that sure wasn’t great in keeping the temperature up at.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18444.msg179266.html#msg179266

Norma

Offline jeffereynelson

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1278
  • Location: Los Angeles
Re: My New York Pizza Experiments
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2012, 04:36:53 PM »
Heres the new pics as promised. I took the ball out of the fridge and went golfing, so the dough ended up sitting out for almost 3 hours, I wish it would have been out shorter. The bake time also surprised me, I pulled it out at 3:25 (a bit early but it was way ahead of where I thought it would have been so I got flustered haha).

It was a tiny bit tougher and chewier than I would like. I hate when I feel like my jaw is working, I won't even eat mediocre steaks for that very reason.


Offline jeffereynelson

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1278
  • Location: Los Angeles
Re: My New York Pizza Experiments
« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2012, 11:34:48 PM »
So I just moved and in the move we now have a new oven. I just thought I'd share a pic from my first batch. I have gone from an electric oven to a gas one, and boy it is really different. I have only made on batch of dough so far and I am liking the results, but I definitely have some work to do to figuring out the best timing and setup for the oven. It is pretty cool seeing the pizza rise under the flame of the gas broiler.

Pizza bakes in about 3:20



Offline Jet_deck

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3052
  • Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Re: My New York Pizza Experiments
« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2012, 11:37:28 PM »
Dude, I would hit that 3:20 pizza any day of the week.  Keep cooking more pies with pictures.
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline jeffereynelson

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1278
  • Location: Los Angeles
Re: My New York Pizza Experiments
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2012, 12:37:27 AM »
Thanks for the compliment! I just bought some more flour today so I can make some more dough.

Offline jeffereynelson

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1278
  • Location: Los Angeles
Re: My New York Pizza Experiments
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2013, 04:26:44 PM »
We had some pizza today, the family liked it. Pizza is always a good lunch. I actually wish I would have cooked it a tad longer.

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12491
  • Location: Durham,NC
  • Easy peazzy
Re: My New York Pizza Experiments
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2013, 07:04:00 PM »
Looks great from here Jeff...won't take you long to dial in that new oven.  :chef:
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline pythonic

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2659
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Crest Hill, IL
  • Pizza......its what's for dinner!
Re: My New York Pizza Experiments
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2013, 03:19:32 PM »
Beautiful pies Jeff.

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline jeffereynelson

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1278
  • Location: Los Angeles
Re: My New York Pizza Experiments
« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2013, 12:31:54 AM »
Here is my first pizza that I would classify as Neo-Ny or Elite NY or whatever you want to call it, so I wanted to share. I don't think the terms have any dictionary definition and can be ambiguous. These cooked in about 2:15, way faster than I was planning. I kicked the grill up a little and when I came back to launch the stone had reached 800. Nevertheless, it was a great same day pizza.

EDIT: you can see I pulled it out around a 1/2 turn too early haha

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7210
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: My New York Pizza Experiments
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2013, 01:06:07 AM »
Dude......that pie looks righteous!  :drool:


Offline jeffereynelson

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1278
  • Location: Los Angeles
Re: My New York Pizza Experiments
« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2013, 09:52:23 PM »
Thanks Chau

Offline tinroofrusted

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1382
  • Location: OC, CA
  • Experimenting....
Re: My New York Pizza Experiments
« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2013, 10:08:42 PM »
Fantastic Jeff.  I am very happy that we can really start making some great NY style pizzas with the Blackstone.  I am partial to NY over NP (although I am starting to waver a bit on that) but I had never been able to get that really great char that you see on a NY elite pie. Now we can do it, as demonstrated by your pizza.  Well done. 

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7210
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: My New York Pizza Experiments
« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2013, 10:12:17 PM »
What flour and hydration did you use?  Please talk about the dough method as well so I can have a little study.  ;)

Offline pythonic

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2659
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Crest Hill, IL
  • Pizza......its what's for dinner!
Re: My New York Pizza Experiments
« Reply #45 on: July 13, 2013, 07:48:39 AM »
Excellent pie Jeff.  Are you using steel and broiler to bake these?

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline Tscarborough

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3799
  • Location: Austin, TX
    • Pizza Anarchy
Re: My New York Pizza Experiments
« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2013, 02:05:01 PM »
Pretty sweet, 2 minute puts it firmly in the Neo-NY camp.

Offline jeffereynelson

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1278
  • Location: Los Angeles
Re: My New York Pizza Experiments
« Reply #47 on: July 13, 2013, 08:38:09 PM »
@Chau- The flour was the oh so amazing Sams Club bread flour haha. And the hydration was 62, that seems to be my go to. I used my normal method. Did you see my post in the BS thread from when you had sent me the PM on workflow before?

@Nate- thanks, and I used the blackstone. I don't really have use for my steel anymore.

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7210
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: My New York Pizza Experiments
« Reply #48 on: July 14, 2013, 02:22:47 AM »
I guess I missed it.  I Looked at your posts but can't seem to locate it.   Can you post a link to it?  Thanks.

Chau

Offline jeffereynelson

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1278
  • Location: Los Angeles
Re: My New York Pizza Experiments
« Reply #49 on: July 14, 2013, 03:52:21 AM »
Okay took a bit of finding, but here is the link, it has the mixing times and pics you asked for. Reply 495

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25127.495.html

Also, here is a 2 day cold rise that is from the same dough as the above the pizza at the top of this page. It was cooked closer to 4 minutes as opposed to just over 2 for the other.