converting wood oven to gas...commercial

[BrickStoneOven]

You are right.  I am on the wrong forum. This is obviously a place for people who just want to argue.

You hit the nail on the head .

[shuboyje]

No this is a forum with people who know a little bit and didn't just drop to their knees and declare you a savior because you freed the world of evil wood fired ovens.  You on the other hand are using a brick oven as a marketing gimmick and have essentially turned it into a very expensive and inefficient gas fired deck oven and fail to see that.

You are right.  I am on the wrong forum. This is obviously a place for people who just want to argue.

[buceriasdon]

Jeff, You bring up a very good point about gas consumption, something I've wondered about throughout this topic. Some years ago here in Bucerias, Mexico a couple of partners had a gas fired brick oven built for their new pizzeria. I looked at the setup before they opened and remarked they were going to use a lot of propane, they waved my comment off, but two months later they tore out the oven and replaced it with a deck. Granted I'm sure the burner this gentleman is using is much more efficient. Just curious.
Don

[Fourlix]

And since you have not been forcoming about whether you are professionals or amateurs let me clue you in as to how this goes.
      When you build a restaurant, from scratch as I did, you accumulate and purchase a lot of equipment.  Stoves, hoods, blowers, mixers, ovens, plates, dishwahers, sinks, pans, coolers, tables, etc. It is all expensive and some of it is not what you thought it would be.  I have replaced many major ticket items, like stoves and coolers all at considerable expense.
     I purchased a MAM505 on ebay for a really good price, and built it into the wall and tiled around it.  It exactly fit the space that was available, and my full intention was to do wood fired pizzas, although adding gas was a consideration.  So a year and a half later, after probably 20,000 pizzas I realize that I have to do something about our quality, consistency and production.  Going to gas was a gamble, but if it worked it would be an easy fix.  Wood was not working for me. And buying a deck oven was completely out of the equation because I would have to demolish half my pizza kitchen, it wouldn't fit, it would cost 10 times what this burner cost, I would have to close the restaurant for at least a week, and I don't want a hot air oven anyway.  But honestly I had no clue as to how well it would work, or not. 
     There is very little information out, especially regarding someone who had made the switch. I looked on here BEFORE I POSTED ANYTHING.  I took a chance and am absolutely delighted with the result. Maybe it is a charactaristic of this oven but it works better with gas than wood.   Whether it is gas, coal or wood, it is just a source of heat to cook with. But certain ovens are going to work better with certain fuels.
       In my original post I say that I would let you know how it turns out.  And I did.  Excuse me if I Enthusiastically endorse what I did.  It worked for me, and might work for someone else.   I gave specifics, temps and locations.  Names and numbers for anyone interested.  I still have a wood fired oven in my backyard that I designed and built myself, that I will not be converting.
    You guys have done nothing but bitch and moan because I made gas work for me, and it might work for someone else. 
     If you are not interested in a gas conversion why are you reading this thread other than to just flame me?

[Fourlix]

And another thing.  This thread is about CONVERTING A WOOD OVEN TO GAS......COMMERCIAL.   Not any of the crap you backyard WFO purists are talking about.   Not a deck oven,  Not achieving perfect Neapolitan at 850, but converting a Commercial oven from wood to gas.  PERIOD   

[pizzaneer]

Erm, first let me say "Congrats" on your happiness.   
 I can appreciate the trouble high turnover of staff would cause in running a WFO in a restaurant.  There are many, many WFO pizzarias that produce wildly inconsistent product, and this is largely due to operator error.  So sometimes they just give up on high-difficulty items in favor of what the staff can handle producing reliably.    In turn, this gives WFO's a bad name to the general public.  Not  us, obviously, because we're pizza-obsessed.  But in general.
   Again, your solution seems very satisfactory, given that it allow you consistency, even when cursed with your high turnover rate.  That kind of leads to another point. 
   I don't mean to offend,  but retaining good workers is a sign of a good work environment.  You seem a little... touchy, and quick to anger.
Again, congrats on your oven.  Best of luck in exploiting its new characteristics to benefit your bottom line.
 

[Fourlix]

Exactly.  And I really shouldn't have brought this whole thing up on this forum.  I didn't realize I was going to stir up such a hornet's nest.  This is a delicate subject from several perspectives, and I went right to the wrong place to talk about it.  PMQ would have been a better choice as suggested, but I am done for now.  Looking for, finding, and sharing information is what I have always used forums for. I guess I need to be a little more discriminating.
"Seacrest out".....

[scott123]

PMQ would have been a better choice as suggested, but I am done for now. 

Good luck with that.  PMQ is a ghost town.  Pizzamaking gets around 30 times more posts per day. Any pizzeria owners with an online presence are here, not there.  Not to mention that if someone does reply to you there, it will most likely be less friendly.

Believe it or not, we're friendly in this forum.  Even though you're getting less pats on the back than you were hoping to get, doesn't mean that the members here don't value your contribution or your experience.  If you can frame this in a way that's applicable to John Q. high temp WFO owner, you will get that pat on the back that you're looking for.  Instead of reacting emotionally to perceived slights (that, frankly, aren't happening) crank up both burners, see how high it tops out at and give the Neapolitan fanatics here the info they're looking for.

[Fourlix]

Here are some pics,  But it/they look so much better in real life...

[buceriasdon]

Thanks for sharing the photos. Impressive. I have a question if I may. Is this a low or high pressure system? TIA
Don

[Fourlix]

This is natural gas. Which is pretty cheap here in New Mexico.  It is possible to jet it for Propane.  It is going to be very interesting to see what my gas bill is next month.  I predict it will be the same as what I was paying for firewood.
The girls however are high pressure,,,at least as far as my blood pressure goes when they are around...

[Fourlix]

I just got my first gas bill...Last month was $168, This month $188.  Natural gas.  $20 Bucks?  That's it?
wow.  I talked to the gas company, they said the bills go out right after the meter is read.  We have had the Drago for a little over a month.   With wood fired we would have some sort of "train wreck" in pizza land twice a week.  "In the weeds".  people waiting 45 minutes for a pizza with a rail full of tickets. Pizzas burnt on top, undercooked on the bottom. Customers complaining of soot on the bottom of their pizzas. ALL GONE>>>>>>
 We have had only one incident where the guys got behind in this entire month.  I have also reduced the number of employees from 3 to 2, except for Friday night where we still use 3.  The pizzas look more golden brown with a little charring.  Where the wood fire would radiate laterally from the fire, the long flame of the Drago wraps itself against the ceiling and radiates down on to the floor.  The pizzas are coming out with very well done bottom crusts.  We do have to be carefull when cooking a lot of pizzas to let the floor temp recover, hit the booster with no pizzas in the oven to reheat the floor. 

[pizzaneer]

Sweet!

Sounds like you have hit a home run with your oven mod.

Just recently I was at a local place for a friends birthday.  They had an EarthStone, a BIG, BEAUTIFUL oven, with gorgeous tile inlay, marble landing, stainless steel everywhere.   The fire was on.  It looked nice. 
   Guess what?  THERE WAS NOTHING IN IT. The LED temp readout on the front said "480".  This was on a busy Saturday night.  I had a look at their pizzas for slices that were in a glass case on the counter.  Utterly horrible.  Flat as a f**kin pancake, white as a ghost.

   So, now that you are happy with your oven, and you seem to know how to use it, how about sharing some pictures of your pizzas? 

[Fourlix]

Oh yeah.  The secret is in the dough, not the oven, not the sauce, not the cheese.  Of course that all helps, but without a good dough recipe/technique it is all a waste of time and money.  I know a place....where they have a great big earthstone oven, tiled, beautiful,  lousy pizza, and it is because of their dough.  When I built my backyard oven I thought I would automatically be able to make great pizza....yeah, didn't happen.  My pizzas were still lousy.   I paid $25 for the "secrets from a pizzaria" and was finally on the right track.  I didn't stop there.  I kept researching, and experimenting with flours and techniques.  It's simple, but elusive.  We have a simple and reliable technique now, with great tasting crust.  I'll post some pics,,,,but it is all in the flavor of the crust. I can use our dough from work and get a pretty good pizza in my home kitchen gas oven....for that lazy day I don't want to do any more than I have to. 
        Some basics that we use:   All Trumps 50143 unbleached, unbromated flour, Fresh yeast, sea salt, filtered water.  24-48 hour cold rise.  The rest is secret. 

[pizzaneer]

        Some basics that we use:   All Trumps 50143 unbleached, unbromated flour, Fresh yeast, sea salt, filtered water.  24-48 hour cold rise.  The rest is secret. 

Keep your secrets, pal.  Don't want them.  I'm not a commercial maker, and I'm pretty happy with my dough too.  Don't you wish you had found this site a long time ago, back before you shelled out money for someone else's recipe, then had to spend years tweaking it?

We're all here to help each other, show off our pies and trade stories.  People with secrets tend to not hang around.

[Nebula]

Dang, you already have a secret recipe. I was hoping to put you in contact with the pizza savant in this thread.

Maybe you need a buffalo wing recipe... 

[pizzaneer]

LOL, that thread is the whole reason for my reaction to the "secret recipe"!  What a nutjob.

[Fourlix]

 I am attaching a pizza pic I took today, and a picture of our cold proofer, which is an old Pepsi fridge. And for those of you who like Coke better.......keep it to yourself.   You seem to want to argue about everything. 

[pizzaneer]

Alex,
  thats one nice looking pie!  Without telling us any of your trade secrets, what's on it?
Brian

and I like the um, soda case too. Very handy.

[Fourlix]

The "Gila Monster" is Jalapenos, GYRO meat, pepperoni, hot Italian sausage, Green Chile, & onions.
It's a really good combo, especially for Southwest tastes.  We have a "Gila Monster Challenge", eat two of them in 40 minutes.  Get them for free and a T-shirt.  That's 5 & 1/2 pounds of pizza (5-6 lbs is what the guy on Man v Food can eat) Nobody has been able to get eat more than 1 & 1/2.  The Jalapenos are a big factor, it is hard to eat a lot of them.  And the next day........Caca Fuego !!