Author Topic: INSTANT YEAST: Warm Water vs. Cold Water  (Read 4700 times)

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Offline 1976Pianoman

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INSTANT YEAST: Warm Water vs. Cold Water
« on: April 01, 2012, 02:29:39 AM »
Hello,

Some pizza dough recipes call for warm water added to the mixed dry ingredients, others call for ice cold water added to the mixed dry ingredients, and yet others call for the yeast to mixed separately in warm water before being added to the dry ingredients.

Why so many different ways?  Which way is best? 

Thank you. 


Offline norma427

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Re: INSTANT YEAST: Warm Water vs. Cold Water
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2012, 10:37:15 AM »
1976Pianoman ,

I sure am not the dough doctor and never will be, but thought I would answer a little to some of your questions.

If you are interested, this is a good thread to read if you want to learn more information if you are a beginning pizza maker.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2223.0.html At Reply 8 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2223.msg19563.html#msg19563  Pete-zza gives more information about when to add IDY, mixing and more.

The warm or cold water added to the dry ingredients are for different final dough temperatures or for different mixing methods.  Doughs can be fermented longer or shorter times by the final dough temperatures and the amounts of yeasts that are used. 

ADY is rehydrated in warm water, while IDY can be directly added to the other ingredients, but the salt shouldn’t be in contact with the IDY for very long, if at all.  At the pizza glossary
http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza_glossary.html you can read more about the differences in IDY and ADY.


Norma
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Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: INSTANT YEAST: Warm Water vs. Cold Water
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2012, 10:46:55 AM »
Norma

Salt will not harm IDY, that's another old tale that is perpetuated by writers who write rather then bake.
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: INSTANT YEAST: Warm Water vs. Cold Water
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2012, 11:39:44 AM »
Salt will not harm IDY, that's another old tale that is perpetuated by writers who write rather then bake.

Modern yeast strains are more tolerant to salt than older strains but because salt is a hygroscopic substance and can leach fluids out of yeast cells by osmotic action and impair the yeast's performance, it is best not to let the salt remain in contact with yeast for long--as brief a time as possible. In Naples, to make sure this doesn't happen, the practice is to thoroughly dissolve the salt in water before adding the yeast or starter. That is what I would recommend, especially to beginners, in order to lessen the likelihood of harming the yeast.  In my opinion, it is not worth losing a pizza or getting sub-par results just to avoid a simple prophylactic measure.

In addition to rehydrating ADY in warm water, it can also be added to the flour and used with water at a temperature of up to about 120 degrees F. The flour in that case buffers the ADY from the higher water temperatures.

None of the forms of yeast are fond of very cold water since that can shock the yeast and degrade its performance. However, in the case of IDY, when added to the flour, the buffering effect of the flour can offer protection to the IDY so that it can tolerate colder water. Usually, one would use colder water in order to achieve a low finished dough temperature for a prolonged cold fermentation that might run to several days, or if the dough is to be frozen. Under normal circumstances, one would use a water temperature that will achieve a finished dough temperature of about 75-80 degrees F for a home refrigerator application or about 80-85 degrees F for a commercial application using commercial coolers that run several degrees cooler than a home refrigerator.  

There are also a couple of applications where IDY can be rehydrated. If one uses a mix/knead time that is less than about 4-5 minutes, or unless one is using a vertical cutter mixer, it is a good idea to rehydrate the IDY in water at a temperature of about 95 degrees F (see Reply 5 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14376.msg174903.html#msg174903).

I have used ADY dry (without rehydration) but that is advanced stuff where you have to know what you are doing and why, and how to adapt dough recipes to accommodate dry ADY. An example of this practice is given at Reply 48 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg64308/topicseen.html#msg64308.

Peter

Offline 1976Pianoman

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Re: INSTANT YEAST: Warm Water vs. Cold Water
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2012, 01:30:53 PM »
Thank you all for your input  :)

I am attempting to make a healthier pizza crust using Ultragrain flour.  I learned through a failed experience 2 days ago that this may not be possible and that the type of flour used is critical - something you all surely know already.   The 100% Ultragrain crust turned out to taste far too healthy, almost as bad as whole wheat, and the texture was wrong.   While the recipe may have not been the best recipe, the main culprit was this Ultragrain flour that I was once so jazzed about.  I used this recipe:

http://americanfood.about.com/od/pizzainsideandout/r/nypd.htm

Here's some pics of my adventure:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/casa-robles-kitchen/ultragrain-pizza-trial-1/319040508159471


Yesterday, I followed a different recipe and am attempting a 50/50 mix of Ultragrain & high gluten white flour.  This is the recipe I am following:

http://www.101cookbooks.com/archives/001199.html

If this crust fails to impress, which I will know today, then the final thing I'm going to do is a 50/50 Tipo 00 pizza flour & Ultragrain mix.  If that fails as well, I will just accept that pizza dough can't be made with Ultragrain.  

« Last Edit: April 01, 2012, 01:34:38 PM by 1976Pianoman »

Offline norma427

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Re: INSTANT YEAST: Warm Water vs. Cold Water
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2012, 02:08:51 PM »
1976Pianoman,

I started a thread about using whole grain flours (including the Ultragrain) if you are interested.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17172.msg167126.html#msg167126

I also used Dark Rye flour and Ultragrain flour at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16823.0.html  You can see what Pete-zza posted at Reply 11 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16823.msg163987.html#msg163987 that those flours need a higher hydration. At Reply 21  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16823.msg164039.html#msg164039 I did use a higher hydration. 

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: INSTANT YEAST: Warm Water vs. Cold Water
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2012, 03:45:08 PM »
Ryan,

A while back I investigated the Ultragrain Hard Wheat flour in an effort to help another member come up with an Ultragrain version of a Mellow Mushroom pizza. You can see the results of my investigations at Reply 949 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg165549.html#msg165549. I think your problem is that you were trying to use the Ultragrain flour all by itself, whereas everything I found on the flour suggested that it be combined with other flours. Whatever final blend you come up with you will want to get the hydration right, as the Ultragrain flours really hog the water, as Norma has mentioned. You might also consider using the Ultragrain Soft Wheat flour if you have been using the other flour.

If you do a search of the forum using the term Ultragrain, you will find several posts on the subject of that flour.

Peter

Offline 1976Pianoman

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Re: INSTANT YEAST: Warm Water vs. Cold Water
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2012, 05:05:42 PM »
Thanks Peter,

I will study your post on the subject.

My Ultragrain trial #2 just came out of the oven.  Actually, it's already been consumed!  It was INCREDIBLE, an absolute success.  Could not tell by the flavor or texture that there was any whole wheat shenanigans going on.  I did a 50/50 blend with Gold Medal Better for Bread flour and Ultragrain.  The Ultragrain I use is surprisingly enough Ralph's brand (A supermarket in So Cal).  They have their own generic white whole wheat with the Ultragrain logo.  It's got 4g of fiber per serving.  I will repost on a new thread my experience and the recipe I followed with some pics.   

I'm so glad to meet other pizza nerds.  Pizza nerds unite!