Author Topic: The deep dish "Pizza Recipes" on the main site  (Read 1301 times)

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Offline Garvey

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The deep dish "Pizza Recipes" on the main site
« on: April 03, 2012, 09:04:59 AM »
This is something I posted elsewhere but seems more germane to this board:

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Question: with cornmeal having been completely debunked as an ingredient in authentic Chicago deep dish pizza, why does the DKM recipe remain on the site as some kind of exemplar?

I'd add the Jeff Smith's recipe to that criticism, too.  With so many great recipes on this board, why are those two laughable, inauthentic recipes still at the site summit?  It's sad to think people come to this site and waste their time with those recipes.

[Please don't misunderstand: This is NOT a knock on DKM.  It is obvious his contributions to this site are legendary.  But that recipe is goofy, as is the other one.  Besides the cornmeal problem, they each call for 10 minutes of kneading with a stand mixer. Etc.]
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 09:09:54 AM by Garvey »


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: The deep dish "Pizza Recipes" on the main site
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2012, 10:40:23 AM »
Garvey,

The forum's recipe section was created years ago, when the forum had maybe a few hundred members. It has been inactive for many years. It might have been expanded but, as a site that relies strictly on volunteerism of its members to get things done, that meant that someone would have to do all the work to prepare new recipes for the recipe section (composition, graphics, etc.) and coordinate that activity with Steve, the owner and Aministrator of the forum, to host the recipes on the forum. Also, as the number of recipes posted on the forum expanded, there was no way of vetting them to see which ones warranted inclusion. Now we must have several hundred recipes, if not more, scattered throughout the forum so it is unlikely that there will ever be an expansion of the recipe section. Also, I think there has been an emphasis over the last year or so to encourage members to become active participants on the forum rather than just treating the forum as a recipe site. A lot of our members come to the forum and join solely for that purpose and, in the majority of the cases, don't return except when they need a new recipe or help of some sort. So, there is not much payback for having a recipe section.

If the recipe section or any of its recipes offends your sensitivities in some way, you might send a PM to Steve. He is the one who decides what is on the forum.

Peter

Offline BTB

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Re: The deep dish "Pizza Recipes" on the main site
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2012, 10:50:47 AM »
Boy, Garvey, you hit the nail directly on the head.  While this is the absolute best website for Pizzamakiing anywhere, it is hard to respond to interested pizzamakers regarding a recipe other than those "at the beginning" and saying BUT . . . we've moved beyond that.  The example of "corn meal" that has been proven (to most) to NOT be included in a typical Chicago Style deep dish pizza is just one among many.  And like you, I repeat this is NOT a reflection of the great, wonderful contributions of DKM and others relating to earlier formulations. But, how do you respond to so many who say, but . . . the recipes at the beginning say . . . this or that?  But now we advise differently . . .

And the situation is not dissimilar with cracker crust, neapolitan and others . . .

But instead of offering just some semi-criticism, let's look to offering some suggestions for improvement.  Maybe of some deemed to be major contributors (don't know how to properly characterize that) we ought to have a list of their recipes (max. one per category).  Or other ideas . . . ?  I know my formulations over the few years here have changed for the better, so we need a way to clearly "update" those recipes rather than enshrine them into "perpetuity" at the beginning of the recipes section of this website.

                                                                                         --BTB
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 11:23:14 AM by BTB »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: The deep dish "Pizza Recipes" on the main site
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2012, 11:34:43 AM »
With all due respect to everyone, suggestions are not the answer. I have been on this forum since August, 2004, and for most of that time I have been a Moderator so I see just about everything that happens on the forum. We have gotten many suggestions over the years, and they are almost always well meaning, but they usually die on the vine because there is no one to bring them to fruition. Since I have been on the forum, I can count the number of volunteers on the fingers of one hand. I worked with one of them to create the dough calculating tools, until he left to start his own business, and another member offered up the tools hosted at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/. Steve and I created the forum's Pizza Glossary. I have created several compilations of recipes only to discover that people do not want to go through lists looking for recipes. What they want is recipes that are standalone, fully self contained, and written just as they would find in cookbooks or at Internet sites that specialize in recipes.

I don't question the fact that things have changed and maybe the recipe section should be revisited. But that is an issue that should be brought to Steve's attention. People should keep in mind, however, that Steve has a family and a regular full-time job and travels a lot, like many of our members, so there are limitations on how much time he can devote to the forum. Not long ago, he spent weeks working to rid the forum of spammers and troublemakers. I used to wake up every morning, as did Bill/SFNM, and be greeted by spammers that spammed the forum overnight from overseas. So, the first hour of my day was spent banning them and cleaning up their messes.

Peter

Offline Garvey

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Re: The deep dish "Pizza Recipes" on the main site
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2012, 01:52:19 PM »
Peter:

I appreciate your hard work and the hard work of the all the site mods.  I did not mean to offend you or anybody else.  

How would I contact Steve--via the webmaster@pizzamaking.com address listed in the "About Us" section of the site?

FWIW, the easiest thing to do would be to simply add a disclaimer to the top of each recipe.  I know what you mean about not wanting suggestions but volunteers, so here is my volunteer contribution on the wording of such a disclaimer.  (That being said, I do not have site admin rights to make the changes on the recipes...)

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[NOTE: This recipe may be outdated.  For the latest recipes and formulations for making deep dish pizza, please visit the Chicago Style board on the Pizza Forum.]

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[NOTE: This recipe may be outdated.  For the latest recipes and formulations for making thin and crackery pizza, please visit the Cracker Style board on the Pizza Forum.]

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[NOTE: This recipe may be outdated.  For the latest recipes and formulations for making New York style pizza, please visit the New York Style board on the Pizza Forum.]


Anyone want to wordsmith these further before I submit them to Steve for his perusal?

Cheers,
Garvey

Offline BTB

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Re: The deep dish "Pizza Recipes" on the main site
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2012, 02:07:14 PM »
I think that this is important for the "crediblity" of this great website to pay a lot of attention to more current thoughts.  We don't want tired-out, old recipes to stay forever as the models for viewers to see and refer to for "decades" on end.  What happens to much newer and maybe better recipes?  Ignored?  No, but don't want to ignore new developments, ideas and thoughts either.               --BTB

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: The deep dish "Pizza Recipes" on the main site
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2012, 02:38:52 PM »
Garvey,

I am not in the least bit offended. I just think that it is useful for the members to know how this forum works and that as a free and open forum there are limited resources to do things.

I usually send Steve PMs via his personal profile at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2. If you explain what your concern is, he will know how he would like to respond.

Peter