Author Topic: New Pizza Shop  (Read 7365 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline By2day

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 26
New Pizza Shop
« on: April 04, 2012, 11:35:29 AM »
Hi there. I have just purchased a pizza shop but have very little experience so maybe you can help me.  I am trying to work with the dough as I have had a few inconsistencies with It but one thing I would like to see if I can fix is how the crust bubbles.  I sheet the dough and put on a 15" screen when it cooks it will bubble around the edge of the crust, I have to poke the bubbles out, sometimes a few times causing me to let all the heat out and the cheese doesn't end up melting as fast as it should.  Some times it doesn't bubble as much and I can leave the door of my bakers pride oven shut and makes a very nice pizza. 

The old owners recipe is as follows
22kg bag of Robin Hood flour 39
1lb salt
0.5 lb sugar
10.75L water (+ 0.5L)
1.25L canola oil
200g (basan flour) "for Protien"
3oz SAF instant yeast

He added all dry then mixed the oil and water together and added in the 1st 5m mix cycle on 1 on the Hobart mixer, adding an additional 0.5L of water to clean up the sides then switch to 2 and mix for 9 min.  He used the body temp finger in water testing method and I was finding the dough to cook funny sometimes, I have switched to 100 degree temp and it has made much nicer dough but final temp is around 98 degrees in the middle cooler everywhere else.

I have found this to be dry to work with and dried fast on the table, then the dough balls are wet on the bottom when taken out of the cooler, and the last time I made it I accidentally added more Sugar and it made really nice dough, easy to work with and didn't dry out.  might try it again.  Any help would be appreciated as I have a lot of learning to do. Thanks!


Offline Jet_deck

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3044
  • Location: Between Houston and Mexico
Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2012, 11:58:58 AM »
.....  when it cooks it will bubble around the edge of the crust, I have to poke the bubbles out, .... Some times it doesn't bubble as much and I can leave the door of my bakers pride oven shut and makes a very nice pizza.  


Have you considered docking the edge of the crust ?

After it is sheeted, how are you cutting the 15" circle?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2012, 12:01:28 PM by Jet_deck »
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline By2day

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 26
Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2012, 12:05:27 PM »
He has always just stretched the dough to the size of the screen (15")  never even heard of docking before...

Offline DNA Dan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 830
Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2012, 12:25:28 PM »
Are you laminating the dough? Here is what a docker looks like.

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/dough-docker-heavy-duty/124DD5704.html

You make your skins, cut them out, then roll this over the skin with 5-6 passes on a hard surface. It makes little holes in the skin so it doesn't puff up as bad. You'll still get some puffiness however.

Offline By2day

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 26
Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2012, 12:35:46 PM »
Lol sorry Yes I do dock it. What do you mean by laminating?

Offline DNA Dan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 830
Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2012, 12:43:43 PM »
If you just flatten or roll out your dough balls then you're not laminating.

Lamination is a process of using a dough which isn't highly developed and rolling it out on a sheeter. The "sheet" is then folded like a letter and run through the sheeter again. This process can be repeated any number of times but the dough develops more and more through the action of the sheeting process. The resulting dough skin is relatively thin, does not show any layers on the edge, but when cooked produces a fair amount of bubbles. This is why I was asking, because typically this style is prone to bubbling up and creating a puffy crust. It's almost always docked.

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 12993
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2012, 02:43:15 PM »
Basan flour has high protein but no gluten. Would it serve any purpose other than perhaps being a nutritional supplement? Might it actually make the dough weaker?
Pizza is not bread.

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 12993
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2012, 02:58:15 PM »
98F is pretty hot for a dough coming out of the mixer. Generally speaking, I think 75-80F is considered ideal.

How long are you letting the dough rise? At what temp? Do you do any rise in bulk, or all in balls? How much do the balls rise before use - 2X? More?
Pizza is not bread.

Offline jeffereynelson

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1278
  • Location: Los Angeles
Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2012, 07:49:26 PM »
By2Day- I think so many times people like myself would never dream of opening a pizza place until we have "perfected" the recipe and worked out all the kinks. Clearly there is no such thing as a "perfect" pizza and the kinks will all be worked out with experience. I envy and congratulate you on jumping in head first and just living the dream. I hope you are extremely successful.

Offline By2day

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 26
Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2012, 09:58:17 PM »
Thank you it's been interesting so far!  The Basan flour is for nothing more than adding Protien, (and not much of that) I did a batch without it and it didn't really change much.  The dough really did start cooking better when I raised the temp, When I Get them into balls I have been letting rise 20-30 min then putting  half in the cooler then 10 mins I put the rest in. the previous owner put them in after 10-15 min I changed it cause It was cooking like it hadn't rose enough.....randomly....in the middle box of the batch.  It is getting much more consistent now but still needs some love.


Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 12993
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2012, 10:14:48 PM »
What is the purpose of adding protein to the dough?
Pizza is not bread.

Offline By2day

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 26
Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2012, 10:33:28 PM »
It was his way of being able to advertise high Protien crust.....Healthy Pizza!

Offline jeffereynelson

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1278
  • Location: Los Angeles
Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2012, 11:10:26 PM »
I really have no idea, but I would suspect if some of the members lived close to you they would come to the shop and help you and eat some of your pizzas in return for payment. I know I would if you were in Idaho haha. Just an outside chance since lots of members like to meet up and help each other out.

Offline Jet_deck

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3044
  • Location: Between Houston and Mexico
Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2012, 08:39:19 AM »
.....   then putting  half in the cooler then 10 mins I put the rest in. the previous owner put them in after 10-15 min I changed it cause It was cooking like it hadn't rose enough.....

Are you putting them in the cooler with the boxes cross stacked to allow uniform cooling ?
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline The Dough Doctor

  • Tom Lehmann
  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 1030
  • Location: Manhattan, KS
Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2012, 09:21:11 AM »
I can certainly help you.
Based on what you have provided, here are the changes I suggest.
Reduce the salt level to 1.75% (385-grams)
Increase the dough absorption to 58% (12.76-Kg/Lts.)
Adjust the water temperature to 65F.
Add all of the water to the mixing bowl, then add the flour and other dry ingredients, mix for about 2-minutes at low speed, or just until all of the flour is wet, then add the oil and mix for one more minute at low speed. Finish mixing in your normal manner.
Target finished dough temperature after mixing is 75 to 80F.
Take the dough to the bench for scaling and balling immediately after mixing.
Place dough balls into plastic dough boxes and wipe the top of the dough balls with salad oil.
Immediately take to the cooler and cross stack for 2-hours, then down stack and nest the boxes to prevent drying. The dough will be ready to begin using after 16-hours.
To use the dough, remove a quantity from the cooler, leaving them sealed in the boxes and allow to temper AT room temperature for 2-hours, then begin opening the dough balls into pizza skins for immediate use.
Any dough balls that will not be used within a 3-hour window of time after you begin opening them should be opened and placed onto a baking screen and then stored in a wire tree rack in the cooler (cover with plastic to prevent drying). These will be good to use later in the day. To use, just remove from the cooler and allow to temper AT room temperature for about 30-minutes, then remove from the screen and restretch if necessary to size, then dress to the order and bake. The dough balls left in the cooler will keep for up to 72-hours.
Tell me something about your oven and baking conditions.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor


Offline By2day

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 26
Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2012, 12:35:12 PM »
Thanks for the advice I will try it.  A couple questions though,
1. Keep sugar at the 0.5lb or should I match the salt content, it was much nicer dough with the higher sugar
2. 58% absorbtion that would be water content right just to clarify.
3. You say 1 more min after adding oil, we usually mix on setting 1 for 5 min total so should I mix for 3 min after adding oil to match what I'm doing now or switch to 2nd setting and mix for longer (11min right now)

At present I have been putting into plastic bins with lids and as soon as I get 6 balls in there it gets a lid and the next box gets started, does oiling the top make the crust greasy at all? I am not sure if there is room in my cooler to cross stack but I am about to go in there and I can check. 

Thanks again for all the help!

Offline The Dough Doctor

  • Tom Lehmann
  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 1030
  • Location: Manhattan, KS
Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2012, 05:08:04 PM »
I would keep the sugar where it presently is if you like the result from that sugar level. The salt and sugar levels are independent from each other. Yes, the 58% is the water absorption level based on the total flour weight. Since you are doing all of your mixing at low speed, it becomes a matter of staging the ingredients in the mixing bowl (order of addition) rather than a change in the dough mixing process. Your total mixing time will remain unchanged. As you are using individual dough containers, You should NOT cover the containers until after they have been in the cooler for at least 2-hours uncovered. This will allow for more even cooling of the dough without the undesirable sweating which you mentioned seeing.
Tom Lehmann/TDD

Offline By2day

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 26
Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2012, 01:56:20 PM »
So I have tried 2 batches now, the first batch I did as you suggested, it made the dough very runny if that's the correct choice of words.  After the regular mixing it was 81 deg but incredibly sticky, so I gave it another 3 min.  That brought me to 85 deg, still very sticky.  We dumped the dough out on the table and it flowed very flat and almost over the sides, hard to ball being very sticky. The balls didn't rise very good stayed very flat, on the upside it was the best tasting dough of all of the batches I have done, and cooked very nice....very nice.

So I thought I might knock the water back a tiny bit, I did 250ml less water, the dough was still sticky, stayed in a ball and rose good but didn't cook as nice as the 1st batch.  Is there any way to make it more usable with the full amount of water? Any suggestions?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 05:45:27 PM by By2day »

Offline La Sera

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 135
Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2012, 04:28:15 AM »
First, you're mixing units between volume, weight, metric and non-metric. Albert Einstein's head would be spinning try to figure it all out without mistakes in calculations and measuring. Next, you may not be methodical enough in the process.

Here is a suggestion:

Use metric weight measurements and keep all units as weight. That's what a baker's formula is and why we use percentages. The recipe percentages are based on the flour content being the base, that's why it's always 100%. You can change the amount of flour, but your percentages always remain the same.

Flour 100% (that is the total weight of all flour in recipe)
Water 58% (If flour is 22.2 kg, water is 22.2 kg x .58 = 12.88 kg)
Salt 1.75% (If flour is 22 kg, salt is 22200 grams x .0175 = 389 grams)
Sugar 1% (If flour is 22 kg, sugar is 22,200 grams x .01 = 222 grams)
Oil try 2% (If flour is 22,000 grams, oil is 22,200 x .02 = 444 grams)
IDY (Instant Dry Yeast) 0.3% (If flour is 22,200 grams, IDY is 22,200 x .003 = 66.6 grams)

Start with water, salt, sugar and yeast in mixer. Mix it together then add about half of your flour and let it mix on low as you slowly add the rest of your flour over the next minute or two. Let it mix about 4-5 minutes, then slowly add oil. Add the oil as last step. You want the flour to absorb the water and adding the oil too soon may reduce some of that absorption.

Some people start with all dry ingredients and add water later. You're choice. But there is no choice on when to add oil - it's always last.

When your dough is about 26-27 degrees C, (75 to 80F) you're golden. Don't mix the dough hotter than that. A small piece should stretch in your hand and not break immediately.

Make your dough balls and coat top with oil just to prevent drying.

I use a small brush to oil the ball, then use a small, lightweight plastic bag for each dough ball and fold the bag over once under the ball. I don't twist the bag closed.

Good luck and be methodical. Measure properly.


(Edited: I just realized that this section is labeled as questions for Tom Lehmann. I'm not trying to speak for him. He's forgotten more than I'll ever know.)
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 06:49:20 AM by La Sera »

Offline The Dough Doctor

  • Tom Lehmann
  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 1030
  • Location: Manhattan, KS
Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2012, 08:53:35 AM »
LaSera;
Not to worry. You did good.
Just think, a few short years ago bakers percent was like a foreign language to most pizzeria operators and home pizza makers.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor


 

pizzapan