Author Topic: New Pizza Shop  (Read 7424 times)

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Offline By2day

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2012, 11:48:10 AM »
Thank you, dough is turning out much better and tastes great, the only step I have trouble with is the cooling with the lids off due to the cooler size not allowing for it, but the dough is cooking much nicer, they are still kind of finicky but cooking in a deck oven with screens might just be that problem...lol Thank you for all of your help I am great full for all of you, I am not embarrassed to sell my crust anymore!


Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2012, 02:51:40 PM »
BY;
If you're having a problem getting the dough to cool down due to the use of a reach in cooler, or an under performing cooler (insufficient capacity), adjust the temperature of the water that you add to the dough to give you a finished (mixed) dough temperature in the 75 to 80F range, probably favoring the 75F side. You might need to lower the water temperature by as much as 10F to accomplish this. Just make sure your cooler is operating at 38F or lower, but not lower than 34F to stay on the good side of your local health department.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline By2day

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2012, 02:21:38 PM »
So I have another question, the dough has been turning out great nice light crispy crust, if I am able to leave it for a few days, problem is is I have only enough room in my coolers for 2 batches of dough and as we are getting busier I am using a batch a day sometimes more so I can't give it the needed time to make the great dough.  I have been letting the dough sit out for 15-45min to get a good rise so it is usable by the next day, problem with that is it just doesn't cook the same or taste as good, is there anything you would recommend I do for now, I plan to get more cooler space when I have the money, but selling less than perfect pizzas in my opinion is hard for me to do..... Please help!

Offline La Sera

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2012, 09:24:57 PM »
Maybe you could try increasing sugar in your dough recipe to 1.5%. You should be able to use your dough the next day. Try to make it early one day to use the next night. Be careful, adding sugar will make your crust brown a little faster, so you may need to reduce cooking time a little.

One important thing to remember is that you should not mix your dough too long. It's better to mix it too short than to mix it too long.

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2012, 08:00:20 AM »
By;
Also, keep in mind that as you ferment the dough at different temperatures you will get different finished flavor profiles. IE: The flavor profile of a cold fermented dough is not the same as that of a warm fermented dough. If it were me in that pickle, I'd mix a dough with a targeted finished temperature of about 85F, scale, ball, oil, refrigerate maybe every 4-hours during the day, or as I deemed necessary to maintain my dough supply. Do you have a reach-in cooler?  If so, try this, Make your dough at night, scale, oil and place into individual plastic bags, refrigerate, early the next morning, place the bags of dough into a box (reduces storage space) and make another batch the same way. The first batch will be ready to go when you are, and the second batch should be ready to go later in the afternoon, mix a third batch after the noon hour trade for the dinner/evening time, this one should be ready to go around 6:00 p.m., do this as necessary to maintain a constant dough supply without over running your ability to inventory dough. The key here is to use individual bags for your dough. Once cooled (about 3-hours) they can be grouped more tightly together for better utilization of limited cooler space. Any major ingredient or restaurant supply should be able to provide you with low cost plastic bread bags. You might need to dock the dough pretty good to control bubbling, but this should allow you to limp through until you can add more cooler space.

Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline By2day

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2012, 03:54:57 AM »
I tried adding the extra sugar and it does cook super fast, also leaves the bottom very tough as I am cooking in a bakers pride deck oven with screens, it did rise very nice in the coolers but if you took your eye off them for even a moment while cooking you had very dark bottoms.  :(

I am a little off your original recipe, it is as follows now
384g salt
220g sugar
87g IDY
22000g flour
12880g water
880g oil

This recipe was cooking amazing when we were slower but this trying to get the dough to rise proper is going to give me grey hair.  My cooler reads 4 deg C and if I put the balls in right away after making they just pretty much stop rising right away.  I am going to bite the bullet and buy another cooler ASAP as this should help but there just seems to be something else not right. Getting frustrated!

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2012, 09:33:31 AM »
The dough formula looks to be in reasonable balance, IDY is a little high at 0.395% (we normally recommend 0.375%) but this should not pose a problem. The sugar is only 1% so that is not a problem either. The oil calculates out to 4%, which is again a little high but not unusually so. Your cooler at 4C/40F is operating at about the highest we like to see it at, and with traffic in and out it during the day, it might actually be operating at a higher temperature but that remains to be seen. From your comment about the dough balls not rising when you take them directly to the cooler after mixing/balling, I would be suspecting that your finished dough temperature might be too low/cold. We normally like to see the finished dough temperature in the 80 to 85F/26 to 29C range. If you can provide us with your complete dough management procedure it would help us to determine where the issue is at, and suggest corrective action.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline By2day

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2012, 11:55:55 PM »
Because of one of the previous posts I was firing for a finished temperature of 80 deg and I can usually get it 80.5 - 81 deg. Should I try to get closer to 85deg? should I drop the yeast down? That would have the opposite effect I am looking for wouldn't it?

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2012, 08:42:07 AM »
Remember, this dough should rise very slowly in the cooler. It typically takes 18 to 24-hours in the cooler for the dough to rise sufficiently (receive enough fermentation) to open easily and produce a finished crust that doesn't exhibit excessive bubbling during baking, and has a very good fermentation flavor. How many hours do you leave the dough in the cooler before you are using it? Do you bring the dough out of the cooler and allow it to temper AT room temperature for 2 to 3-hours prior to opening the dough balls into pizza skins?
If you will send me a private message I will be glad to send you a copy of my Dough Management Procedure that you can use for developing a dough management procedure for your specific shop conditions.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Online Pete-zza

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2012, 09:18:18 AM »
By2day,

Unless Tom has changed his dough management procedures, I believe that they are the ones set forth in Reply 18 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7499.msg64554.html#msg64554.

Peter


Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2012, 02:30:51 PM »
Peter;
That's it.
Thank you,
Tom

Offline By2day

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2012, 10:29:54 PM »
I am cooking on screens, in a deck oven.  I was just taking out the dough, running it through the sweeter and putting it on screens, letting it warm up and using it.  I tried taking out the dough for an hour or so, sheeting,  and using and the pizza is cooking so much nicer! I will continue doing this this week and see how things go but I think that solved my problems! Cooking on the brick with screens makes for a very nice. Light crisp crust when cooked, but one issue I am noticing is that the bottom gets kind of tough once the pizza cools even just a tiny bit, is there an adjustment to the recipe I could do that might make the crust not be so tough as it sits in a slice warmer and I hate selling anything that is to tough. Any suggestions?  I really appreciate all of your help you have all helped me make extremely good pizza, you are great at what you do! Thanks!

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2012, 10:05:47 AM »
You have two options to making a less chewy/tough pizza upon standing. 1: Change to a lower protein content flour if you can. For example, if your present flour has 13% protein content, going to a 12% protein content flour will help to reduce some of the toughness. 2: Continue using your existing flour and increase the fat content. Right off the bat, I'd take it up to at least 5% of the total flour weight and bench mark from there. Maximum tenderness is achieves at around 8% total fat content. You can go higher, but you begin to compromise other characteristics. If you really want to see how the fat level influences toughness, just buy two packages of tortillas (not too terribly different from pizza skins), make one a "feature" package, while the other should be a "normal", full fat tortilla, you don't need to fill and roll, just heat and eat and you'll immediately see the difference.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline pedder

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2012, 08:45:00 PM »
First, you're mixing units between volume, weight, metric and non-metric. Albert Einstein's head would be spinning try to figure it all out without mistakes in calculations and measuring. Next, you may not be methodical enough in the process.

Here is a suggestion:

Use metric weight measurements and keep all units as weight. That's what a baker's formula is and why we use percentages. The recipe percentages are based on the flour content being the base, that's why it's always 100%. You can change the amount of flour, but your percentages always remain the same.

Flour 100% (that is the total weight of all flour in recipe)
Water 58% (If flour is 22.2 kg, water is 22.2 kg x .58 = 12.88 kg)
Salt 1.75% (If flour is 22 kg, salt is 22200 grams x .0175 = 389 grams)
Sugar 1% (If flour is 22 kg, sugar is 22,200 grams x .01 = 222 grams)
Oil try 2% (If flour is 22,000 grams, oil is 22,200 x .02 = 444 grams)
IDY (Instant Dry Yeast) 0.3% (If flour is 22,200 grams, IDY is 22,200 x .003 = 66.6 grams)

Start with water, salt, sugar and yeast in mixer. Mix it together then add about half of your flour and let it mix on low as you slowly add the rest of your flour over the next minute or two. Let it mix about 4-5 minutes, then slowly add oil. Add the oil as last step. You want the flour to absorb the water and adding the oil too soon may reduce some of that absorption.

Some people start with all dry ingredients and add water later. You're choice. But there is no choice on when to add oil - it's always last.

When your dough is about 26-27 degrees C, (75 to 80F) you're golden. Don't mix the dough hotter than that. A small piece should stretch in your hand and not break immediately.

Make your dough balls and coat top with oil just to prevent drying.

I use a small brush to oil the ball, then use a small, lightweight plastic bag for each dough ball and fold the bag over once under the ball. I don't twist the bag closed.

Good luck and be methodical. Measure properly.


(Edited: I just realized that this section is labeled as questions for Tom Lehmann. I'm not trying to speak for him. He's forgotten more than I'll ever know.)

For this recipe, what is the best type of flour and cooking temperature? Thanks in advance!

Offline La Sera

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2012, 10:22:23 AM »
The dough recipe above is my conversion of the original poster's recipe into a baker percentage. I don't use this recipe in my business, so I'm reluctant to advise a flour or flour mix since I've never tested it.

Dough recipes for flour X cooked in oven type Y with temperature Z for time T all depend what type of dough you're looking to make. I'm sorry that I can't provide a simple answer, but it truly is an individual process. There are other variables that affect the outcome.

Most 12% protein flours can be a good starting point for most standard pizza dough recipes.

I'd like to say that others use different processes than I gave as an illustration. Some people add salt and yeast last to the mixer bowl before starting to mix. Some people start with only a portion of flour or water and add more during mixing. Some people stand on one leg, waving their hand over the mixing bowl and swear that it affects the flavor of their dough...

There are perhaps as many ways to make dough as there are dough makers.

I trust Tom and others can offer up some advice on flours and temperatures for the type of oven(s) you have.

Offline By2day

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2012, 06:59:05 PM »
Well I have had to change to pan pizza as cooking on a screen in a deck oven is to stressful, the pans were much better then all of a sudden started getting very dark on the bottom out of no where with no change to the recipe!  Grrrrrr starting to hate dough! :(

I was cooking at 550 before and no problem never had a burnt pizza, then out of nowhere burning.  I dropped the temp still did it(525) I have played with different systems from people that have used pans in other restaurants and no luck still tried warmer temp and pressing dough right into pans as others have done same thing still burning randomly.  I was so happy before because I could just throw them in watch the top and bottoms were hardly even browning it was great and made a great pizza.  Can anyone help I am getting pretty stressed here! How do others do it with pans?  I am using a bakers pride deck oven.

Thanks!
:(

Offline pizzaneer

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2012, 11:04:47 PM »
I hope you have a test thermometer. Sounds like your oven control unit may be going up.
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

Offline By2day

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2012, 11:32:18 PM »
I bought one and it does seem a little high but shouldnt there be more top heat as well if that was acting up?

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2012, 11:40:14 PM »
or his pans are seasoning nicely and in turn changing his bake times?

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2012, 02:57:14 PM »
Also, keep in mind that all deck ovens are not the same. Some have substantially thicker decks and a different burner configuration below the deck, typically deck ovens with these attributes are not as prone to having hot spots (pies don't need to be rotated or moved during the baking process) while others have a thinner deck, or a deck made from a different material, and usually have a different burner configuration beneath the deck all of which can result in the need to turn and move pizzas during the baking process to achieve a uniform bake to each pizza in the oven. Have you baked any of your pizzas using a screen under the pan for a portion of the baking process?
Tom Lehman/The Dough Doctor


 

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