Author Topic: New Pizza Shop  (Read 8439 times)

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Offline By2day

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2012, 03:54:57 AM »
I tried adding the extra sugar and it does cook super fast, also leaves the bottom very tough as I am cooking in a bakers pride deck oven with screens, it did rise very nice in the coolers but if you took your eye off them for even a moment while cooking you had very dark bottoms.  :(

I am a little off your original recipe, it is as follows now
384g salt
220g sugar
87g IDY
22000g flour
12880g water
880g oil

This recipe was cooking amazing when we were slower but this trying to get the dough to rise proper is going to give me grey hair.  My cooler reads 4 deg C and if I put the balls in right away after making they just pretty much stop rising right away.  I am going to bite the bullet and buy another cooler ASAP as this should help but there just seems to be something else not right. Getting frustrated!


Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2012, 09:33:31 AM »
The dough formula looks to be in reasonable balance, IDY is a little high at 0.395% (we normally recommend 0.375%) but this should not pose a problem. The sugar is only 1% so that is not a problem either. The oil calculates out to 4%, which is again a little high but not unusually so. Your cooler at 4C/40F is operating at about the highest we like to see it at, and with traffic in and out it during the day, it might actually be operating at a higher temperature but that remains to be seen. From your comment about the dough balls not rising when you take them directly to the cooler after mixing/balling, I would be suspecting that your finished dough temperature might be too low/cold. We normally like to see the finished dough temperature in the 80 to 85F/26 to 29C range. If you can provide us with your complete dough management procedure it would help us to determine where the issue is at, and suggest corrective action.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline By2day

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2012, 11:55:55 PM »
Because of one of the previous posts I was firing for a finished temperature of 80 deg and I can usually get it 80.5 - 81 deg. Should I try to get closer to 85deg? should I drop the yeast down? That would have the opposite effect I am looking for wouldn't it?

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2012, 08:42:07 AM »
Remember, this dough should rise very slowly in the cooler. It typically takes 18 to 24-hours in the cooler for the dough to rise sufficiently (receive enough fermentation) to open easily and produce a finished crust that doesn't exhibit excessive bubbling during baking, and has a very good fermentation flavor. How many hours do you leave the dough in the cooler before you are using it? Do you bring the dough out of the cooler and allow it to temper AT room temperature for 2 to 3-hours prior to opening the dough balls into pizza skins?
If you will send me a private message I will be glad to send you a copy of my Dough Management Procedure that you can use for developing a dough management procedure for your specific shop conditions.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Online Pete-zza

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2012, 09:18:18 AM »
By2day,

Unless Tom has changed his dough management procedures, I believe that they are the ones set forth in Reply 18 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7499.msg64554.html#msg64554.

Peter

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2012, 02:30:51 PM »
Peter;
That's it.
Thank you,
Tom

Offline By2day

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2012, 10:29:54 PM »
I am cooking on screens, in a deck oven.  I was just taking out the dough, running it through the sweeter and putting it on screens, letting it warm up and using it.  I tried taking out the dough for an hour or so, sheeting,  and using and the pizza is cooking so much nicer! I will continue doing this this week and see how things go but I think that solved my problems! Cooking on the brick with screens makes for a very nice. Light crisp crust when cooked, but one issue I am noticing is that the bottom gets kind of tough once the pizza cools even just a tiny bit, is there an adjustment to the recipe I could do that might make the crust not be so tough as it sits in a slice warmer and I hate selling anything that is to tough. Any suggestions?  I really appreciate all of your help you have all helped me make extremely good pizza, you are great at what you do! Thanks!

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2012, 10:05:47 AM »
You have two options to making a less chewy/tough pizza upon standing. 1: Change to a lower protein content flour if you can. For example, if your present flour has 13% protein content, going to a 12% protein content flour will help to reduce some of the toughness. 2: Continue using your existing flour and increase the fat content. Right off the bat, I'd take it up to at least 5% of the total flour weight and bench mark from there. Maximum tenderness is achieves at around 8% total fat content. You can go higher, but you begin to compromise other characteristics. If you really want to see how the fat level influences toughness, just buy two packages of tortillas (not too terribly different from pizza skins), make one a "feature" package, while the other should be a "normal", full fat tortilla, you don't need to fill and roll, just heat and eat and you'll immediately see the difference.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline pedder

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2012, 08:45:00 PM »
First, you're mixing units between volume, weight, metric and non-metric. Albert Einstein's head would be spinning try to figure it all out without mistakes in calculations and measuring. Next, you may not be methodical enough in the process.

Here is a suggestion:

Use metric weight measurements and keep all units as weight. That's what a baker's formula is and why we use percentages. The recipe percentages are based on the flour content being the base, that's why it's always 100%. You can change the amount of flour, but your percentages always remain the same.

Flour 100% (that is the total weight of all flour in recipe)
Water 58% (If flour is 22.2 kg, water is 22.2 kg x .58 = 12.88 kg)
Salt 1.75% (If flour is 22 kg, salt is 22200 grams x .0175 = 389 grams)
Sugar 1% (If flour is 22 kg, sugar is 22,200 grams x .01 = 222 grams)
Oil try 2% (If flour is 22,000 grams, oil is 22,200 x .02 = 444 grams)
IDY (Instant Dry Yeast) 0.3% (If flour is 22,200 grams, IDY is 22,200 x .003 = 66.6 grams)

Start with water, salt, sugar and yeast in mixer. Mix it together then add about half of your flour and let it mix on low as you slowly add the rest of your flour over the next minute or two. Let it mix about 4-5 minutes, then slowly add oil. Add the oil as last step. You want the flour to absorb the water and adding the oil too soon may reduce some of that absorption.

Some people start with all dry ingredients and add water later. You're choice. But there is no choice on when to add oil - it's always last.

When your dough is about 26-27 degrees C, (75 to 80F) you're golden. Don't mix the dough hotter than that. A small piece should stretch in your hand and not break immediately.

Make your dough balls and coat top with oil just to prevent drying.

I use a small brush to oil the ball, then use a small, lightweight plastic bag for each dough ball and fold the bag over once under the ball. I don't twist the bag closed.

Good luck and be methodical. Measure properly.


(Edited: I just realized that this section is labeled as questions for Tom Lehmann. I'm not trying to speak for him. He's forgotten more than I'll ever know.)

For this recipe, what is the best type of flour and cooking temperature? Thanks in advance!


Offline La Sera

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2012, 10:22:23 AM »
The dough recipe above is my conversion of the original poster's recipe into a baker percentage. I don't use this recipe in my business, so I'm reluctant to advise a flour or flour mix since I've never tested it.

Dough recipes for flour X cooked in oven type Y with temperature Z for time T all depend what type of dough you're looking to make. I'm sorry that I can't provide a simple answer, but it truly is an individual process. There are other variables that affect the outcome.

Most 12% protein flours can be a good starting point for most standard pizza dough recipes.

I'd like to say that others use different processes than I gave as an illustration. Some people add salt and yeast last to the mixer bowl before starting to mix. Some people start with only a portion of flour or water and add more during mixing. Some people stand on one leg, waving their hand over the mixing bowl and swear that it affects the flavor of their dough...

There are perhaps as many ways to make dough as there are dough makers.

I trust Tom and others can offer up some advice on flours and temperatures for the type of oven(s) you have.

Offline By2day

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2012, 06:59:05 PM »
Well I have had to change to pan pizza as cooking on a screen in a deck oven is to stressful, the pans were much better then all of a sudden started getting very dark on the bottom out of no where with no change to the recipe!  Grrrrrr starting to hate dough! :(

I was cooking at 550 before and no problem never had a burnt pizza, then out of nowhere burning.  I dropped the temp still did it(525) I have played with different systems from people that have used pans in other restaurants and no luck still tried warmer temp and pressing dough right into pans as others have done same thing still burning randomly.  I was so happy before because I could just throw them in watch the top and bottoms were hardly even browning it was great and made a great pizza.  Can anyone help I am getting pretty stressed here! How do others do it with pans?  I am using a bakers pride deck oven.

Thanks!
:(

Offline pizzaneer

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2012, 11:04:47 PM »
I hope you have a test thermometer. Sounds like your oven control unit may be going up.
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

Offline By2day

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2012, 11:32:18 PM »
I bought one and it does seem a little high but shouldnt there be more top heat as well if that was acting up?

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2012, 11:40:14 PM »
or his pans are seasoning nicely and in turn changing his bake times?

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2012, 02:57:14 PM »
Also, keep in mind that all deck ovens are not the same. Some have substantially thicker decks and a different burner configuration below the deck, typically deck ovens with these attributes are not as prone to having hot spots (pies don't need to be rotated or moved during the baking process) while others have a thinner deck, or a deck made from a different material, and usually have a different burner configuration beneath the deck all of which can result in the need to turn and move pizzas during the baking process to achieve a uniform bake to each pizza in the oven. Have you baked any of your pizzas using a screen under the pan for a portion of the baking process?
Tom Lehman/The Dough Doctor

Offline pizzaneer

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2012, 06:44:22 PM »
Pan= conductive surface.  It is sucking the heat out of the stone and shoving it into the pie.  This is why pan pizza specialists usually bake lower for longer.  Gives the toppings time to finish before the bottom is charred.

Could you use one oven for pan and one for NY? 

If you really must use the same oven, try putting the pan on a screen.  The air gap should help buffer the thermal transfer.
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

Offline By2day

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2013, 02:38:46 AM »
Thanks for the screen advice, worked well and pizzas are cooking great!


Offline franko9752

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2013, 03:41:13 PM »
trying to delete this msg, ????
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 04:35:34 PM by franko9752 »

Offline franko9752

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Re: New Pizza Shop
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2013, 04:14:32 PM »
Well I have had to change to pan pizza as cooking on a screen in a deck oven is to stressful, the pans were much better then all of a sudden started getting very dark on the bottom out of no where with no change to the recipe!  Grrrrrr starting to hate dough! :(

I was cooking at 550 before and no problem never had a burnt pizza, then out of nowhere burning.  I dropped the temp still did it(525) I have played with different systems from people that have used pans in other restaurants and no luck still tried warmer temp and pressing dough right into pans as others have done same thing still burning randomly.  I was so happy before because I could just throw them in watch the top and bottoms were hardly even browning it was great and made a great pizza.  Can anyone help I am getting pretty stressed here! How do others do it with pans?  I am using a bakers pride deck oven.

Thanks!
:(
  With my Bakers Pride electric deck oven, brick lined, i use an IR temp. gun and with the temp. set on 450deg.f on the oven dial i would get readings of 525 on lower deck and 575 or higher on the top deck so make sure you know the actual temp. i love my IR gun. Also yes, it can be stressful when busy cooking on a deck, i use no screens or pans, always checking to not burn the crust, checking the temp. wth. ir gun,etc. etc., i use no sugar as i need no help with browning and does taste great without it. practice practice and practice :chef:
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 04:37:34 PM by franko9752 »