Author Topic: How can I increase dough elasticity to make for better on/off peel  (Read 916 times)

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Offline tbear

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Hi all,

After a few fails with preferment and eventually killing my preferment, I'm back to IDY. I'm using Divella 00 and bulk fermenting at 65F for 19 hours then balling for  additional 4.5 hours followed by 30 minutes outside temp 80F. The result was pretty good, but the dough is very difficult to slide onto the peel. There's no elasticity. This has been my consistent problem during my quest for Neapolitan style. I'm not sure if there something I can adjust in fermenting or ingredient portions. I've come down to 59% hydration. Oven temp 400c

Flour (100%):322.9 g  |  11.39 oz | 0.71 lbs

Water (59%):190.51 g  |  6.72 oz | 0.42 lbs

IDY (.04%):0.13 g | 0 oz | 0 lbs | 0.04 tsp | 0.01 tbsp

Salt (2%):6.46 g | 0.23 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.16 tsp | 0.39 tbsp

Total (161.04%):520 g | 18.34 oz | 1.15 lbs | TF = N/A

Single Ball: 260 g | 9.17 oz | 0.57 lbs


Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!


Online TXCraig1

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Re: How can I increase dough elasticity to make for better on/off peel
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2014, 08:27:44 AM »
When you say there is no elasticity, do you mean the pie stretches a lot when you try to slide it onto the peel?

How long are you kneading?
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
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Offline tbear

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Re: How can I increase dough elasticity to make for better on/off peel
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2014, 06:24:53 AM »
Yes, exactly. The weight of the sauce and cheese hold the middle down and its very difficult to slide it onto the peel and it doesn't come off. I've tried semolina and it helps a little bit. I knead about five minutes, put in fridge a 5-10 minutes, fold a few times, then do this again 1 more time. Should I try kneading more?

Offline Don Luigi

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Re: How can I increase dough elasticity to make for better on/off peel
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2014, 07:10:30 AM »
Your dough looks pretty hydrated, even you mention it's only 59%...the less hydration, the easier the general handling...also over-fermented dough is pretty hard to work with...your workflow is very similiar to what I do and I only had these kind of problems with too high hydrated dough or over-fermented dough where the middle of the pizza was so thin that the water from the tomatoe sauce came through and made the pie stick to the peel...
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Online TXCraig1

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Re: How can I increase dough elasticity to make for better on/off peel
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2014, 09:51:02 AM »
Are you balling your dough tight? I would think a tight ball that is only in balls for a total of 5 hours would be fairly elastic.

I'd also suggest opening your dough about 80% of the way, top it, and then slide to the peel. This way, the sliding will open it up the last 20%. If you open it up all the way before sliding, it can get too thin.

It looks like you are using a lot more cheese and maybe more sauce than typical for a Neapolitan pizza which might be part of the problem.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline theppgcowboy

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Re: How can I increase dough elasticity to make for better on/off peel
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2014, 10:47:36 AM »
I think that stint in 80 degrees is making your dough too warm and that can lead to the problem too.  I find that dough that is too warm will exhibit that problem. The dough at 65 degrees is a very good temp to be working with.

Offline Korinthos

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Re: How can I increase dough elasticity to make for better on/off peel
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2015, 07:45:12 AM »
Your dough looks pretty hydrated, even you mention it's only 59%...the less hydration, the easier the general handling...also over-fermented dough is pretty hard to work with...your workflow is very similiar to what I do and I only had these kind of problems with too high hydrated dough or over-fermented dough where the middle of the pizza was so thin that the water from the tomatoe sauce came through and made the pie stick to the peel...

Are you balling your dough tight? I would think a tight ball that is only in balls for a total of 5 hours would be fairly elastic.

I'd also suggest opening your dough about 80% of the way, top it, and then slide to the peel. This way, the sliding will open it up the last 20%. If you open it up all the way before sliding, it can get too thin.

It looks like you are using a lot more cheese and maybe more sauce than typical for a Neapolitan pizza which might be part of the problem.


... I find that dough that is too warm will exhibit that problem. The dough at 65 degrees is a very good temp to be working with.

Excellent advice, I experience the same problem. I also suspected that I have a tight ball making deficiency and you now confirm it. Rest of points apply to me too, except for the temperature. The room temperature is now about 16C (60F) and I have longer fermentation times and non-sticky dough.

Thanks for the answers!
Korinthos

Offline f.montoya

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Re: How can I increase dough elasticity to make for better on/off peel
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2015, 08:01:59 AM »

...I'd also suggest opening your dough about 80% of the way, top it, and then slide to the peel. This way, the sliding will open it up the last 20%. If you open it up all the way before sliding, it can get too thin.

Craig is spot on with this. It is a common error to open out to final diameter before topping. This leaves you little strength in the dough to withstand the transfer to the peel. I guess you are in Australia or some other southern hemi area? If it's summer, then you need to keep protect your dough from excess heat. As theppgcowboy says, 65f is a good temp to try to keep your dough at.

As for an illustration of what Craig is talking about, I demonstrate it in this video (and I actually tend to overload my pies!! lol)...

« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 08:04:11 AM by f.montoya »

Offline 78DegNorth

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Re: How can I increase dough elasticity to make for better on/off peel
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2015, 09:03:55 AM »
Hi,

What really made a change for me was starting using wood. I made a wood peel and a box. Its a lot easier to get it off the peel. My last bake was 72% water. A wood box give you a dryer surface on the ball, and the wood peel prevent the dough from sticking. Sometimes you can feel the moist from the dough after I lunch the pizza into the oven. I should also mention that where I live there is rally low humidity. 20%-40% is normal inside humidity(lowest outside humidity today is 35%).
I also open up to about 80-90% and stretch the pizza when its on the peel. Youtube has been my friend. It's nice to copy people that know what they are doing. After watching pretty much every pizza bake video on youtube it's almost like I have been making Neapolitan pizza for years, but I have been doing this for under a year.

~b


Offline bxtzd3

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Re: How can I increase dough elasticity to make for better on/off peel
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2015, 09:26:39 AM »
i think i might be the only person that was trained to make the pie on the peel no sliding it around the counter. you could always try that.


 

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