Author Topic: foldable crust  (Read 2899 times)

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Offline Christopher

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foldable crust
« on: September 12, 2005, 05:22:54 PM »
i hear talk of the crust of a neapolitan having the character of folding like a book and was wondering what the technique for achieving this was. Kneading? baking? rising? i have been to this site often and have tried many techniques from here out and have had great success, but my crust isnt really foldable without cracking typically. maybe too much cook time. any suggestions would help.
thanks,
christopher


Offline chiguy

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Re: foldable crust
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2005, 06:27:52 PM »
Hi, Christofer
 Have you tried hand streching the dough. If you are rolling out the dough it tends to disrupt the gas that develops during the fermentation process and create a firmer type crust. You may still be able to develop a foldable crust with experimenting with different recipes and baking methods but when i use a pizza stone i always hand stretch.
                    Good luck, chiguy   

Online Pete-zza

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Re: foldable crust
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2005, 07:32:45 PM »
Christopher,

One of our more prominent experts on authentic Neapolitan pizzas is pizzanapoletana, and he should feel free to comment on the question you have posed. However, if you are using 00 flour and a standard home oven, as opposed to a very high-temperature oven as is used in Naples, then you will have to make some adjustments to your recipe. You will want to keep the hydration level (the ratio of the weight of water to the weight of flour) on the high side but not so high (say, above 55%) as to produce a cracker-like crust because of the longer required bake time. Also, you will want to add a bit of oil to your dough to achieve more softness in the crust and crumb as well as slightly better extensibility (stretchiness) of the dough.

Another option if you are using a 00 flour with a fair amount of protein, such as a moderately strong flour like the Caputo 00 flour, is to use a 00 flour with a lesser amount of protein, such as the Bel Aria brand. The Bel Aria 00 flour won't be as good overall as the Caputo 0, but it will be yield a softer, more tender crust amenable to folding a libretto. 

If you haven't yet discovered some of the Caputo 00 dough recipes that should meet your requirements, you may want to take a look at the A16 thread on this forum. Much effort was devoted there to trying to find ways to improve the performance of the Caputo 00 flour in a home setting.

Since you posted in the Neapolitan section, I assume that your emphasis was intentionally on that style. However, the foldability characteristic you mention is inherently a part of a classic thin New York style pizza, with a dough that typically has high hydration (e.g., from 58-65%), a bit of oil, and a thin crust with a drooping tip--the quintessential New York street pizza that Tony Manero (John Travolta) folded and ate in Saturday Night Fever (did you know Travolta's sister played the pizza lady?).

Peter
« Last Edit: September 12, 2005, 07:34:18 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Christopher

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Re: foldable crust
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2005, 08:55:39 PM »
chiguy and pete-zza,
thank you both for replying so quickly. really i have tried a few recipes out: the neo-neapolitan from American Pie, which my wife loves and is crisper (which i expected), and i have tried the typical cake flour addition recipe (very pale) and bought a "00" flour a few months ago and tried that following the recipes here and got good results always.
example recipe for cake flour addition was:
1.5 cups all-purpose
1.5 cups cake flour
1 cup water (115 F)
.25 cake fresh yeast (small cake)
2 teaspoon olive oil
1 teaspoon salt
1 teaspoon sugar

i let the yeast melt in the water for 10 minutes, mixed the flours, salt and sugar in a seperate bowl. added flour mixture a handful at a time until all was fully hydrated. let sit for 1.5 hours.
mixed in oil and kneaded for approximately 10 minutes.
let dough sit for 10 minutes and broke into 2 dough balls, put in freezer bags and placed in fridge for about 24 hours.
heated oven (using unglazed quarry tiles) at 500F for 1 hour.
baked pizzas with crushed san marzanos and fresh mozzarella and oil for about 8-10 minutes.

pizzas tasted good and browned better than i expected. the crust was soft yet crispy, but when folded cracked down the middle.

i have used the neo-neapolitan recipe (American Pie) many times recently and like that, but would like to challange my neapolitan pizza skills. i have not tried the bel-aria or the caputo 00 yet, but would like to.

p.s. would like to say i have hung around here for months before registering and wanted to thank you guys, because my pizzas are getting better with each batch and that is do to the information you supply. thanks

christopher




Online Pete-zza

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Re: foldable crust
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2005, 10:39:00 PM »
Christopher,

I have made pizzas like yours many times--either before I was able to find good 00 flours or I had run out of whatever 00 flour I was able to find at the time (mainly the Bel Aria). Now that the Caputo 00 flour has become much more readily available to home pizza makers and in smaller quantities (from PenMac at pennmac.com), that is a flour you may want to try when you can. I have also tried the Neo-Neopolitan recipe from American Pie. The Caputo 00 should do a better job in the right recipe and following the types of measures I mentioned in my earlier post.

In due course, you might want to invest in a good digital scale. That will give you better control over the hydration issue. With volume measurements, which are highly variable, you will be guessing a lot, making it more difficult to achieve consistency and repeatability.

Peter

Offline Christopher

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Re: foldable crust
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2005, 07:06:34 AM »
thanks, pete-zza, i appreciate the info. maybe a digital scale is in my future since my birthday is coming up :D
i will continue to read the forums and gather all the info i can and share when possible.

christopher