Author Topic: First Deep Dish Attempt, Third Pie Ever (Read 2041 times)

rcbaughn · « **on:** April 14, 2012, 08:55:58 AM »

I am super proud of this pie it being my first. The sauce could have used some more salt and seasoning, and next time I'm going to top the whole thing with pepperoni and use hot italian sausage, but other than that the pie was amazing! The Boar's head Mozz block that I bought and sliced was awesome, and the Sargento Provolone did the job. I also grated a really high grade Parm on top that I got from Whole Foods. Probably the most expensive thing on the pie. Ha.

I've never had authentic Chicago Deep dish pizza, but maybe these pics will help you guys determine whether I did an okay job replicating it. The 15% Semolina recipe on the first page sticky was a home run, I am positive that the semolina added a lot to the crust other than using just AP flour. I do have to say though that when the dough came together and went in the fridge, I said to myself that there was no way that that shaggy mess of oily dough would come out looking like you guy's awesome pizzas. LOL. I used butter flavored Crisco in a thin smear to lube the pan, and I think that really helped with flavor as well as crisping.

It baked it at 450 for 27 mins in a 9" spring-form pan on my cheap stone. I don't know if you guys have ever used a spring-form, but that had to be the easiest plating I've ever done. Snap the sides off and carry the pie with the bottom of the pan. It is deep enough to allow you to make a REALLY deep dish if you wanted to as well. I may see if they make them in 12" applications! If a regular 9" pan would've done better though let me know and I'll order one online, I have a feeling I might be making these quite often now, along with my attempts at a good neapolitan.

Thanks to vcb and everyone else who gave me advice on this baking project too. I look forward to learning more and more as time progresses and maybe being able to give back to the community with input one day in the future.

rcbaughn · « **Reply #1 on:** April 14, 2012, 08:58:26 AM »

LOL, the forum rotates my pictures. Good thing that a pizza is round!

The last picture is a shot of the edge around the bottom where I tore the crumb off to let you guys are a good peek at the dough inside. I figure the edge and bottom would be the best indicator of texture in a picture.

BTB · « **Reply #2 on:** April 14, 2012, 11:20:07 AM »

Cory, great looking pizza (even if one has to turn their head a bit). Chicago Style deep dish pizza dough most often has an oily feel to it -- but often doesn't. It should feel a little oily, but if too much so, I add a little flour at a time to make it a little less so, but not entirely without an oily sensation. It's a "feel" that only comes with time and experience. Suggest little to no "kneading" but not a "good amount of kneading" as you expressed. Just barely mix the dough together for 30 to 45 seconds. In a way, it is best to be a little "under mixed."

Nate's suggestion on his pizza is very good. One of my recent favorites is mentioned at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6480. msg164297.html#msg164297 . As you will notice there, the raw dough that's put into the deep dish pan has no oily sheen to it at all. But I have to admit that "sometimes" that happens. And sometimes one's oil measuring techniques affect the formulation differently.

Some don't like the small amount of rice flour in that recipe, so just change the proportion to the amount of semolina flour that you'd like. But many others absolutely love a tiny proportion of rice flour into the mixture to give that slight "crunch." Remember that all these formulations are just starting points for what you and yours may like the best. Individual trial and error are what these forums are all about and the recipes are just starting points for viewers to start off on. But you've done an excellent job with your pizza. Thanks for the pictures.

--BTB

BTB · « **Reply #3 on:** April 14, 2012, 05:27:03 PM »

BTW, I am not big on "spring form" pans. Over time they tend to leak and may smoke up one's oven and kitchen as reported elsewhere on this website and set off the smoke alarms. But there are some that have successfully used them. "Tradition" -- as Tevye in Fiddler on the Roof insists -- would require a solid dark pan that looks like it was used for a hundred years. Shiny pans are -- even tho they are what was originally used -- are discouraged. In any event, you should just have fun experiencing the great features of pizzamaking here on this website. --BTB

rcbaughn · « **Reply #4 on:** April 14, 2012, 06:52:29 PM »

Thank you! I am so glad to hear this coming from you since you seem to be an influential and knowledgeable member on here when it come to deep dish style pizza! I was trying to make neapolitan in my home oven, but I am getting NY style instead. Since this turned out so well with my oven only being able to attain lower temps I may stick with deep dish pizzas.

I should have clarified on the oil situation a little better. I did have a hard time getting it worked in at first, and probably worked the dough two minutes to get it all in, and even then it was a bit shaggy and oily. But after the 24 hours rest in a ziplock in the fridge the dough really came together. I guess it works the same as letting the dough and water hydrate prior to kneading a neapolitan style dough, it just soaks it up. When the dough was allowed to rise for a couple hours before forming in the pan it got even better. I guess I should just trust the recipes and go with it, especially since I'm using scales. Really the only hard part about the pizza was measuring the small amounts of yeast and salt with 1/4 tsp measuring spoons. I just kind of had to guess since my scales only measure to 1 gram accuracy.

And I will definitely try to procure a good deep dish pan since they will probably work out better over the long run. I guess the spring-form will do till I find one I like, especially since it is a darker metal and not light aluminum. I may try my 60 year old cast iron skillet, but I've heard the cooking times have to be lengthened for such pans and crust textures turn out much different. Thanks for the kind words though, makes me think I may have actually got to sample a bit of Chicago style pizza here in Alabama.

P.S.- I would like to make a pie tonight but haven't made my dough, would you recommend just not refrigerating and letting it just double at room temp (70 degrees in my home) till I form into the pan? I guess the flavor won't be there like the last pizza, but hopefully that crispy tender texture will remain.

norma427 · « **Reply #5 on:** April 14, 2012, 07:20:09 PM »

rcbaughn,

Your deep dish pie sure looks delicious!

Norma

Garvey · « **Reply #6 on:** April 14, 2012, 09:27:33 PM »

Cory, your pizza looks great! If it cooked up nicely and tasted good, don't go changing! Keep doing what you're doing! Tweak, experiment--sure, but no real need to use your cast iron, etc.

As for small amounts such as yeast, it's easier to just go with volumetric measurements (e.g., "1/2 tsp") than a gram or two.

I see you're in Bham. Have you been to Tortugas yet? The owners are from Chicago and learned their chops at Edwardos, IIRC. I haven't had their deep dish, which I have heard is good, but I have had their Chicago thin, and it was quite excellent (and authentic). [I thought their sausage had anise or something that was not as good as it could be--this was a while ago and it may have improved since then--but was still a very good pizza and the only authentic Chicago thin I've ever had in the South except what comes out of my own oven.]

One last thing: get your Italian sausage from Whole Foods. Their recipe is from Chicago, and it is VERY much a "pizza sausage" all the way. My good buddy and co-engineer of the Pizza Factory clone (thin crust recipe) on this site now lives in Bham, and I can say with full assurance that that sausage is legit and the best you'll find in town. Give it a try ASAP. Trust me on this. (And thank me later. ;-))

rcbaughn · « **Reply #7 on:** April 15, 2012, 02:41:39 AM »

Thanks Norma and Garvey! And I haven't been to Tortuga's yet, but if they make an authentic pie it would be worth it to go compare my flavors to theirs and use that to hone my own recipe for crusts and fillings. The only reason I haven't been is because I'm cheap. It hurts me to pay $25 for a pizza on a college budget, ha.

And do you mean the fresh sausage that is in the meat case with the pork chops and fresh beef, or is it a certain brand of packaged ones that Whole Foods offers? I have looked at the fresh in house ones before and saw a hot and mild italian and almost went with the hot version, but ended up getting Johnsonville ones at Wal-Mart. That was the wrong decision because they were lacking in the flavor department. Not to the point of being bad, just not the best sausage I've had or even close to good ones I've had. And the next pizza I make after you get back to me on which sausage to get at Whole Foods and I have no doubt that the thanks will be pouring from my keyboard!

vcb · « **Reply #8 on:** April 15, 2012, 02:53:59 PM »

Quote from: rcbaughn on April 14, 2012, 06:52:29 PM

P.S.- I would like to make a pie tonight but haven't made my dough, would you recommend just not refrigerating and letting it just double at room temp (70 degrees in my home) till I form into the pan? I guess the flavor won't be there like the last pizza, but hopefully that crispy tender texture will remain.

On Friday night, I made a few 12" pizzas with my dough formulation,
substituting 1/4 cup of the flour with semolina, and letting it rise for 2 hours in a mixing bowl covered with plastic wrap,
under a few track lighting spotlights, with no punch down.
I used it immediately and found the texture similar to what you see in the Malnati's videos.

A light spray of high-heat cooking spray in the bottom of my light colored anodized aluminized steel cake pans
still yielded a crispy crust.

BTW - Nice job on that springform deep dish! Looks great!

Garvey · « **Reply #9 on:** April 15, 2012, 09:44:11 PM »

Cory, yes, I meant the fresh stuff they have in the butcher case, made on site. Call ahead to make sure they have some, because whenever my buddy Dave in Bham goes there, he cleans the place out (no joke!).

Haha, vcb, nice going. Love seeing "sacred cows" get turned into hamburger. I've used silver pans to turn out great pies, too. Maybe dark ones are better, yada yada, but recipe, technique, and knowing one's way around one's own kitchen is more important than hardware.

Cheers!

Garvey

BTB · « **Reply #10 on:** April 16, 2012, 02:12:16 PM »

Cory, I noticed a change in your picture on the left side. Did you change the girlfriend for a puppy? I realize that a puppy is much more loyal and comes without commitment or other female difficulties, but . . . was there some other special meaning in that change? ? LOL. --BTB

P.S. My wife just moaned at me! !

The Dough Doctor · « **Reply #11 on:** April 16, 2012, 03:02:14 PM »

RcBaughn;
Did you use raw sausage on your deep-dish pizza? In Chicago the sausage is buried down under the sauce and it is applied as raw sausage. This gives the finished pizza a very unique flavor that you just can't get using pre-cooked sausage. Going this route, you may want to bake the pizza a little longer, about 45-minutes total baking time. If necessary, use a screen or something under the pan to prevent burning the bottom with the longer baking time. Also, try adding some "egg shade" a type of yellow food coloring to your dough. This is what they do in Chicago to give the dough the unique yellow color.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

rcbaughn · « **Reply #12 on:** April 16, 2012, 07:46:58 PM »

@vcb - I am going to try the short rise time next time on the counter. If I can speed up a pie then more power to it! The flavor of the dough was still there compared to an overnight refrigerator rest?

@Garvey - Will do! I would be quite bummed if I got to Whole Foods, dough on the counter, and ready to make a pie and they had no sausage! Haha, I would hate to use Johnsonville again.

@BTB - I did change the girlfriend for the pup! Hahaha, but no, that is a girl I've been talking to for a while but she is in NYC for the time being. We went to my fraternity formal together and have been talking, but I figured that I'd put up a picture of something I really care about.... My Ruger boy pup! It's kind of crazy how they develop personalities that mimic their owners, their like a kid. And commitment... You hit the nail on the head too, no commitment here for me and not anytime soon! Tell your wife that I understand, but remember, we're just guys and do what we do! (Which to their advantage is make pizza, and on your end it looks great, mine not so much yet!)

@Tom - I did use raw sausage, I bought the Johnsonville raw kind in the refrigerated section at Wal-Mart. I am going with the Whole Foods Italian next time if it isn't all bought out! I cooked my pie for 27 mins at 450, and the sausage was cooked but definitely on the lighter side underneath the sauce. Is the sausage normally more on the dark well done side in the pies? I guess I could back off on the head and cook it for longer if that is the case. I'm also going to throw some pepperoni on top of the sausage and under the sauce next time if that isn't too taboo. I put it on top of the pie on my first attempt and loved the flavors it added, but that may have been because the Johnsonville sausage was bland. And I'm going to Wal-Mart tonight, I'll get some food coloring for sure! Just a few drops yeah?

Pete-zza · « **Reply #13 on:** April 16, 2012, 10:05:52 PM »

Quote from: rcbaughn on April 16, 2012, 07:46:58 PM

And I'm going to Wal-Mart tonight, I'll get some food coloring for sure! Just a few drops yeah?

rcbaughn,

To the best of my knowledge, Gino's East is the only major Chicago deep-dish pizza outfit that uses the yellow food coloring, as I noted in the next to last paragraph in the opening post in the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4931.msg41756.html#msg41756. However, if you still want to try the yellow food coloring in the Malnati's style pizza dough anyway and you use the deep-dish dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/dd_calculator.html, you will note that one of the item entries is for yellow food coloring. If you enter a value of yellow food coloring up to a max of 0.62% (of the formula flour), the tool will calculate how much yellow food coloring to use. Since semolina flour already has a yellow color, you might want to use 85% of the calculated amount of the yellow food coloring so that it applies to only the white flour part of the blend. For fun, I ran the numbers through the deep-dish dough calculating tool for the 9" size and I believe you would use 16 drops of yellow food coloring (McCormick’s FD&C #5), or about 3/16th of a teaspoon. That is 1/8 teaspoon plus half again. Remember, these amounts are the max. So you can use less if you want.

Peter

vcb · « **Reply #14 on:** April 16, 2012, 10:18:25 PM »

One more thing that I forgot to mention-
I've been using "rapid-rise" (sometimes says "for bread machines" on the label) yeast in my most recent pizzas,
which may improve the texture of your 2 hour counter-top risen dough... or it may not ( I'm not an expert on yeast... yet :-) ).
I don't know how much of a difference it makes, but the extra vitamin c in the rapid-rise yeast does help that yeast work better.
Whether you're using the active dry or the quick-rise, I like the Red Star brand (aka SAF), and have used Fleischmann's with good results also.

rcbaughn · « **Reply #15 on:** April 16, 2012, 10:30:37 PM »

@Peter - I'll give my next dough a shot of it if it isn't too expensive at Wal-Mart for a little bottle. Thank you for doing the percentages with the dough calculator tool. I am quite lost with that tool even though I've played with it a good bit. I'll keep trying and reading on the forum to try to get tips on how it works though and how to modify recipes. I usually stick to tried and true recipes while I am learning the basics of a food. It's nice to have people help with additions like food coloring, thanks again for doing that for me!

@vcb - I have been using ADY in most of my dough attempts, but I do have a packet of rapid rise yeast from Fleischmann's. I always use rapid rise yeast in my grandma's recipe for her famous rolls and they always turn out amazing. I'll be sure to give it a go when I try your dough sometime later this week because I gotta clean up leftover's the next few nights! Definitely not a bad thing though. Reheating the pizza may be tricky to not dry it out, but I'll get it right hopefully.

****** P.S. - I think I might try packing some cheese on the rim of the dough like Burt's Place does, or so I've read they do. I like the idea of crusty cheese on the inside of the rim. Maybe a slower cook time would help to keep it from burning too. I haven't seen a lot of posts on Burt's Place pizza in the forum though.

The Dough Doctor · « **Reply #16 on:** April 17, 2012, 08:59:21 AM »

Peter;
Beggar's Pizza is another Chicago chain that uses Egg Shade in their dough, as do a number of independents. You need to watch with the amount of "yellow coloring" used as they are not all alike. If a dough formula calls for X amount of Egg Shade (a commercial product) a different coloring material might require a different amount to achieve the same color impact upon the dough. You can Google "Egg Shade coloring" to get more information on it.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

rcbaughn · « **Reply #17 on:** April 17, 2012, 09:32:38 PM »

I found food coloring "gel" at my Wal-Mart, but that was all they had. I take it that it is the same thing though, just let it work into the dough and bam yellow pie! Thanks for the information Tom, thorough help is SO nice. I love this forum so much, I probably check it way too often. LOL.

rcbaughn · « **Reply #18 on:** April 22, 2012, 07:50:07 AM »

Garvey! I just thought that you should know that I ended up getting the sausage at Whole Foods...... AND IT MADE ALL THE DIFFERENCE! You are right my friend, it was amazing. My only regrets was buying their little block of store brand whole fat mozzarella and not sticking with the Boar's Head that I put in the first pie. It let loose a lot of moisture and after the leftover pie set on the pan a bit it got soggy on the bottom. Still very good though what I cut and eat at first, and the soggy half was even good after I re-crisped it up the next day on my stone.

I'm still getting terrible amounts of sausage slide when I cut my pies. The whole thing just wants to slide right out when I cut more than a 1/4 of the pie out. I may stop making my sausage into one big patty and trying to get space and open spots in it that way it doesn't move as one big mass of an object. LOL. But overall wonderful, I did the 20% semolina and liked it even more. I shared it with my grandparents and they couldn't believe that I made the pie from homemade. I think that's the best part of learning to cook certain foods, sharing them with family and friends and letting them enjoy the fruits of your learning as well. (Even when they're subpar pizzas it's still pretty good, ha)

Garvey · « **Reply #19 on:** April 22, 2012, 03:04:26 PM »

Nice going! Yes, that sausage is superb. I am glad it worked out for you. And I think you're right about allowing some spaces in there. Should make it easier to cut and manage.

Cheers!

Garvey