Author Topic: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!  (Read 26768 times)

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Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2012, 11:14:23 PM »
I think I will try 3.25 tablespoons of oil in the next skin. I'll post results and pics of the process. Hopefully it won't be a complete failure.
Sounds great Nick.looking forward to your next attempt,thanks.
You've been posting bakers percents...is the 3.25 T jus a typo?
Keep up the good work man!
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Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2012, 08:59:44 AM »
No typo. When I first used the dough calculator I started out with 1.13 tablespoons of oil. After trying the matzo dough recipe I moved the oil up 2.26 tablespoons. That really improved the cracker like texture of the skin, and seemed to help with bubbles and lamination. So just for fun I thought I would up the oil a little more. I't might improve the texture, or more likely maybe make the skin too delicate for a pizza crust. But, that's the fun in this process, trying new formulations to see what happens. I have a really big art festival coming up, so it will be about two weeks before I can get the time to try this. I'll post results with pics. I't ought to be interesting to see the outcome. I had been thinking about using butter flavored Crisco to see what the crust would taste like. Maybe too much like a pie crust flavor for pizza? Who knows, but I think I'll give it a shot anyway

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2012, 04:08:47 PM »
Got it. Sorry, I always just look at the first "weight" measurement.
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2012, 09:25:01 PM »
When I make the next pie, I will list every step, and update the dough calculator to reflect the amounts of ingredients. Not sure of the results, but it's going to fun to see what happens. I think the amount of oil I use this time may be over the top. It'll give me an idea of how much or how little I should use.

Offline Joe Redd

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #44 on: June 07, 2012, 07:50:14 PM »
This does look great!  You guys are really scienetific, but can you decode the information in cups, tablespoons, etc.?  Thanks! //...

buceriasdon

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2012, 08:38:19 AM »
Joe, Baker's percent is not difficult to understand and use. It is much more accurate than volume measurement and easier to communicate the recipe through the written word.  Here is a good explanation.
http://www.wildyeastblog.com/2008/03/22/bakers-percentage-1/
Don

Offline GardenPizza

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #46 on: June 22, 2012, 07:22:46 PM »
I have to say, the excitement and anticipation of making a cracker crust Pizza Inn style pizza from home on this thread was the driving force for me to join this forum.  ;-)   

I await with baited (pizza) breath the next update from Nick57 on the latest test results with further increased oil ratio.   

Nick, Id also be interested in learning more about how you make the dough and cutting in with a rubber spatula by hand (not food processor).  In particular, do you dilute/proof the yeast in the warm water with sugar first, and then dump the wet into the flour with oil all at once?  I understand bringing the dough together - cutting in with a spatula and creating a ball, spritzing water on dry flour process. 

Many thanks.

Offline ThatsAmore

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2012, 02:41:30 AM »
I have to say, the excitement and anticipation of making a cracker crust Pizza Inn style pizza from home on this thread was the driving force for me to join this forum.  ;-)   

That says it all...

Welcome
Who put that pie in my eye ?

Offline GardenPizza

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2012, 03:46:42 PM »
Thanks Amore....

I made Nick's cracker crust adaptation last night (with 2.26 Tablespoons oil).  I first dissolved the .75 teaspoon of active dry yeast in the 6 Ounces of warm water (110 degrees) no sugar, then dumped the dissolved yeast and oil into the 13.4 Ounces of KABF and teaspoon of salt.  It came together easily by hand with a spatula.  It compressed well into a somewhat dry ball with some cracking on the top, but held together fine.  I placed in a sealed tupperware container and refrigerated. 

Before bed i checked on it.  It had risen noticably which i was surprised by given the low yeast ratio to flour.  There was condensation on the inside lid of the container (no surprise).  However, where the dough was exposed to air in the container, it started to create a calloused surface on the dough.  I probably should have oiled the container and turned the dough ball to avoid this.  I removed the dough and wrapped the ball in clear stretch wrap and returned it to the sealed container in the refrigerator. 

I'll be making the skin/crust tonight.  I'm concerned that the surface calloused areas will not hydrate the same as the rest of the dough.  I'll respost later. 

Nick, in your by hand process, do you dissolve the yeast in the measured warm water first, or dump the dry yeast into the flour - then the water and oil together?  I'm a little concerned about the rise in my dough in the refigerator given that i want a cracker thin crust versus a "risen" crust.  I know that DKM talks about the importance of suspending yeast in water first, if i'm understanding the context correctly.

Thanks all! 

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2012, 11:41:28 AM »
I've been busy with the art festival circuit  as of late. I will make a pizza in the next week or so with the 3 tablespoons of oil to see what happens.
 
I proof the yeast in warm water then add it to the flour along with the oil. I mix the salt in the flour before adding the wet ingredients. I use my KA mixer bowl to hand mix the dough. I make a well in the flour and pour in the water and oil. I use the spatula to fold the flour into the liquid. It takes about a minute or so. I then dump the mixture onto the counter and form into a ball. If there is a lot of dry flour I lightly spray it with water to moisten it up a little bit. After I have the dough ball formed, I spray the mixer bowl with oil and lightly oil the dough. I cover the bowl with plastic wrap and put in the fridge for at least 24 hours. After a few hours I check the dough to see if it the skin is drying out. If it is, I lightly spray it with oil to keep the dough moist.
  
  I don't get much of a rise from the dough, usually the ball gets about 30% to 50% bigger by the time I take it out of the fridge. I let it get to room temp before rolling out the skin. Letting it warm up really improves the ease of rolling out. DKM, and Steve's tuts really got me on the right track for a cracker crust. It's hard to get great results using a regular stove. Mine gets to 550 degrees. It is a convection oven. I don't use the convection feature because it overcooks the topping before the crust is done. Using a stone, and par baking really makes a big difference in the crispness of the dough. I also let the crust cool to room temp after the par bake before adding the toppings. It makes quite an improvement on the cracker like texture. Let me know how your pie turns out, take pics if possible. Happy eating! BTW I tried a Pizza Hut thin and crispy last week. It  was not flaky or crackery. It's more like frozen dough, what a shame.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 11:55:13 AM by nick57 »


Offline GardenPizza

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #50 on: June 27, 2012, 02:46:10 PM »
Thanks Nick, and apologies for the delay on my part getting back! 

To summarize, I had an outstanding result with a fantastic thin, cracker crust pizza that I could not stop eating.  It was absolutely excellent and a hit light, crunchy, and perfect texture all around.  I experienced some trial and error with partial fail, so if folks are interested in the gritty details, read on, otherwise, this is definitely my go-to recipe and technique for thin crust pizza for all-time going forward!  So many thanks for sharing this!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Before I set out to make the dough, I read through this thread and summarized all the various tricks and tips in a note to myself.  I weighed out the 13.4 Ounces KABF with 1 teaspoon Kosher salt.  Dissolved .75 teaspoon of active dry yeast in 6 Ounces of 110 degree water, then combined with 2.26 Tablespoons of oil into the dry.  The batch came together in a large bowl easily by hand using a spatula.  There was only a little dry flour in the bowl remaining, but I managed to squeeze and press into a somewhat dry ball that held together well on the counter.  I placed the ball in a sealed Tupperware container in the refrigerator.  Unfortunately, I missed the step to spritz the dough ball and the container with oil.
I checked on the dough about an hour later and naturally there was condensation on the inside of the lid.  There was already some rise which surprised me given the low yeast to flour ratio.  Where the dough was exposed to air inside the container, I noticed a hardened, calloused effect.   I wrapped the entire ball in plastic wrap, returned to the Tupperware container, sealed and back in the refrigerator overnight.

After 19 hours chilled, I removed the dough from the frig, unwrapped, and set directly on the counter for 2.5 hours loosely covered.  Meanwhile, I preheated the oven to 550 degrees with the pizza stone on the second rack position from the bottom.   

The dough rolled out easily to the thickness of a dime, but where the callouses in chilling had occurred, there was obvious scarring and texture difference.  The skin was really easy to handle in transfer from the counter to the pan which I was grateful for.  Looking at the situation, you think this could be a problem given the size and extreme thinness of the skin, but it was not.  I transferred the skin to a perforated 16 inch pizza pan, trimmed and docked. 

Placed pan on pizza stone and baked for 3 minutes.  Removed pan from oven and skin from pan.  Returned parbaked skin to pizza stone directly and baked for 2 minutes more.   This is where real disaster hit.  It had overbaked and half of the skin stuck to the pizza stone tearing away when I attempted to remove it from the oven.  In my panic, I instinctively turned off the oven. 

Working rapidly, I set out to use the leftover dough and trimmings that still remained.  I gathered into a ball and worked, worked, worked to roll it out to the thickness of a dime and it actually worked.  Transferred skin to the pan and tried again.  After 3 minutes it was dramatically puffy, but not nearly golden.  In my haste, I had forgotten to dock lightly and then noticed the oven was only at 380 degrees I had forgotten to turn the oven back on to 550!  I ripped the oven to correct temp and pressed on  ;-)   Because of the reduced temp, it took longer to parbake, but I removed from the pan and placed skin directly on the stone until it started to show spots of golden color.  This is a very forgiving recipe folks. 

Removed skin from the stone without issue.  Pierced bubbles on the crust lightly.  Let cool to room temperature.  Brushed lightly with olive oil, a little sprinkle of salt, fresh grated parmesan, fresh mozz (drained and dried well with paper towels), paper thin slices of parma ham, dry kalamata olives chopped, and fresh basil leaves. 
Back into the oven this time at 425 degrees until toppings were hot and cheese was melted.  Absolutely fantastic folks.   I can hardly wait to make this again.  Tried only at home for starters, but this is definitely ready for prime time.

I had a challenge attaching iPhone photos to the forum directly, so I posted to Flickr instead.  Here they are:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/organize/?start_tab=one_set72157630269314182

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #51 on: June 30, 2012, 08:04:17 PM »
 That's great! I'm glad you were successful. I have never had the crust stick to the stone, though I have heard other people on the forum have experienced this problem. I always make sure after the 2 or 3 minute first par bake, that the skin is dry and a little crispy before I try to remove it from the pan, that way it should not stick to the stone.. This is not rocket science, it's more of a fly by the seat of your pants thing. Though I wish it was rocket science, it would be a H... of a lot easier to get the pie you desire. You need to stay by the oven after putting the skin back in the oven after removing from the pan. A few seconds is all it takes to overcook the skin. Each oven is different, so you have to judge how the skin is doing, and pull it out when it just starts to get very lightly browned in spots or just before they appear.
 I know what you are talking about the skin looking funny if it dries out, it looks leathery. I have noticed that it does not adversely effect the crust too much. I always try to remember to oil the dough and the container, and check on it an hour or two later in case it needs more oil to keep dough wet.

 I understand that different flours take up water differently. I use KABF. Maybe it needs a little more water in what's called for in the "Dough Doctor's" recipe. I had a failure and the dough did not completely hydrate like I noted in the "Dough Doctor's Almost Fail" thread in the forum. If the dough has not come together, I lightly spray it with water. Just enough to moisten the dry flour. I have not had a failure since then.

 You have me fired up and wanting some pizza. So I will do one next week and post the results. I am using an additional tablespoon of oil to see the effects. Hopefully it won't be a complete disaster. I want to see the limits to the amount of oil till the dough does not work as a pizza crust and becomes more of a true cracker or matzo. I'll post pics and step by step procedure.
  
 I could not pull up the Flickr pics, and I am a member. I wanna see. Maybe you could transfer them from there to this site. BTW, great description on how you created your pie. I learned some things by reading your experiment. Keep on trying, pizza making is the ultimate quest of all foodies.



 
« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 09:06:53 PM by nick57 »

Offline ThatsAmore

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #52 on: June 30, 2012, 10:23:27 PM »
Hey GardenPizza,

Glad you had some success.

Not sure if I missed this, but did you put corn meal down on your stone to keep dough from sticking ?

Remember, it's the setbacks that ultimately excel the persistent.  ;)



Who put that pie in my eye ?

Offline GardenPizza

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2012, 10:56:16 PM »
Hey Nick and Amore, thanks for your encouragement and kind words. 

I've corrected the Flickr link, give this one a try  http://www.flickr.com/photos/buttercrumb_kim/sets/72157630269314182/ 

This was indeed a fun experiment and I learned a lot.  I'm hooked.  Can hardly wait to make again in July for a nice summer dinner on the patio (if summer ever arrives in the Northwest).  Nick, will be curious to hear your latest when you have time. 

Amore, I did not use cornmeal on the stone, but probably should have.  I figured it wouldn't be needed given the parbake in the perforated pizza pan as the first skin popped right out cleanly before moving it directly to the stone, but that was a foolish assumption on my part!  Perhaps the skin was still a little tacky or there may have been something on the stone from the previous use that bonded.  Perhaps it was simply the skin overcooked.  And yes, I'll be watching very closely next time! 

Thanks again for sharing your words of wisdom.  Good conversation and good food shared is a great memory. 

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #54 on: July 15, 2012, 09:20:35 PM »
Well, I got some free time to make a pizza. I made the crust the same way as in the past, except I used 3.25 tablespoons of oil to see what effect it would have on the crust. I also docked the crust more thoroughly, the bubbles were getting a little extreme in their size. I noticed that the crust was a little softer than the last. It took less pressure to bite through, but was still crakery and very crisp. The non laminated areas were not chewy, they were nice, crisp, and not bread like. My tasters thought it was my best pizza to date. They loved the cracker like crust, and how lite it was. I must agree with them, and I was surprised it turned out so well. I don't think I'll try to add more oil to see what happens, I think I have reached that limit, besides, I like how this one turned out, and I am sticking with this recipe. I have posted pics of the process.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 09:46:13 PM by nick57 »

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #55 on: July 15, 2012, 09:21:33 PM »
I have added the yeast, water, and oil to the flour.

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #56 on: July 15, 2012, 09:23:05 PM »
I have folded the flour by hand into the liquid, and this is it after I dumped it onto the counter.

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #57 on: July 15, 2012, 09:32:05 PM »
As you can tell, it still has a lot of dry flour. As usual, I spritzed it with just enough water for the ball to stick together.

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #58 on: July 15, 2012, 09:35:00 PM »
I dumped the ball into the oiled KA mixer bowl, and made sure I got a good coverage of oil all over the ball. This is the dough after a 24 hour rise in the fridge.

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #59 on: July 15, 2012, 09:37:06 PM »
I rolled the dough out to the thickness of a dime. I think the added oil eased the rolling, plus, I let the dough get up to room temp before rolling.