Author Topic: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!  (Read 36045 times)

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Offline GardenPizza

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #50 on: June 27, 2012, 02:46:10 PM »
Thanks Nick, and apologies for the delay on my part getting back! 

To summarize, I had an outstanding result with a fantastic thin, cracker crust pizza that I could not stop eating.  It was absolutely excellent and a hit light, crunchy, and perfect texture all around.  I experienced some trial and error with partial fail, so if folks are interested in the gritty details, read on, otherwise, this is definitely my go-to recipe and technique for thin crust pizza for all-time going forward!  So many thanks for sharing this!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Before I set out to make the dough, I read through this thread and summarized all the various tricks and tips in a note to myself.  I weighed out the 13.4 Ounces KABF with 1 teaspoon Kosher salt.  Dissolved .75 teaspoon of active dry yeast in 6 Ounces of 110 degree water, then combined with 2.26 Tablespoons of oil into the dry.  The batch came together in a large bowl easily by hand using a spatula.  There was only a little dry flour in the bowl remaining, but I managed to squeeze and press into a somewhat dry ball that held together well on the counter.  I placed the ball in a sealed Tupperware container in the refrigerator.  Unfortunately, I missed the step to spritz the dough ball and the container with oil.
I checked on the dough about an hour later and naturally there was condensation on the inside of the lid.  There was already some rise which surprised me given the low yeast to flour ratio.  Where the dough was exposed to air inside the container, I noticed a hardened, calloused effect.   I wrapped the entire ball in plastic wrap, returned to the Tupperware container, sealed and back in the refrigerator overnight.

After 19 hours chilled, I removed the dough from the frig, unwrapped, and set directly on the counter for 2.5 hours loosely covered.  Meanwhile, I preheated the oven to 550 degrees with the pizza stone on the second rack position from the bottom.   

The dough rolled out easily to the thickness of a dime, but where the callouses in chilling had occurred, there was obvious scarring and texture difference.  The skin was really easy to handle in transfer from the counter to the pan which I was grateful for.  Looking at the situation, you think this could be a problem given the size and extreme thinness of the skin, but it was not.  I transferred the skin to a perforated 16 inch pizza pan, trimmed and docked. 

Placed pan on pizza stone and baked for 3 minutes.  Removed pan from oven and skin from pan.  Returned parbaked skin to pizza stone directly and baked for 2 minutes more.   This is where real disaster hit.  It had overbaked and half of the skin stuck to the pizza stone tearing away when I attempted to remove it from the oven.  In my panic, I instinctively turned off the oven. 

Working rapidly, I set out to use the leftover dough and trimmings that still remained.  I gathered into a ball and worked, worked, worked to roll it out to the thickness of a dime and it actually worked.  Transferred skin to the pan and tried again.  After 3 minutes it was dramatically puffy, but not nearly golden.  In my haste, I had forgotten to dock lightly and then noticed the oven was only at 380 degrees I had forgotten to turn the oven back on to 550!  I ripped the oven to correct temp and pressed on  ;-)   Because of the reduced temp, it took longer to parbake, but I removed from the pan and placed skin directly on the stone until it started to show spots of golden color.  This is a very forgiving recipe folks. 

Removed skin from the stone without issue.  Pierced bubbles on the crust lightly.  Let cool to room temperature.  Brushed lightly with olive oil, a little sprinkle of salt, fresh grated parmesan, fresh mozz (drained and dried well with paper towels), paper thin slices of parma ham, dry kalamata olives chopped, and fresh basil leaves. 
Back into the oven this time at 425 degrees until toppings were hot and cheese was melted.  Absolutely fantastic folks.   I can hardly wait to make this again.  Tried only at home for starters, but this is definitely ready for prime time.

I had a challenge attaching iPhone photos to the forum directly, so I posted to Flickr instead.  Here they are:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/organize/?start_tab=one_set72157630269314182


Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #51 on: June 30, 2012, 08:04:17 PM »
 That's great! I'm glad you were successful. I have never had the crust stick to the stone, though I have heard other people on the forum have experienced this problem. I always make sure after the 2 or 3 minute first par bake, that the skin is dry and a little crispy before I try to remove it from the pan, that way it should not stick to the stone.. This is not rocket science, it's more of a fly by the seat of your pants thing. Though I wish it was rocket science, it would be a H... of a lot easier to get the pie you desire. You need to stay by the oven after putting the skin back in the oven after removing from the pan. A few seconds is all it takes to overcook the skin. Each oven is different, so you have to judge how the skin is doing, and pull it out when it just starts to get very lightly browned in spots or just before they appear.
 I know what you are talking about the skin looking funny if it dries out, it looks leathery. I have noticed that it does not adversely effect the crust too much. I always try to remember to oil the dough and the container, and check on it an hour or two later in case it needs more oil to keep dough wet.

 I understand that different flours take up water differently. I use KABF. Maybe it needs a little more water in what's called for in the "Dough Doctor's" recipe. I had a failure and the dough did not completely hydrate like I noted in the "Dough Doctor's Almost Fail" thread in the forum. If the dough has not come together, I lightly spray it with water. Just enough to moisten the dry flour. I have not had a failure since then.

 You have me fired up and wanting some pizza. So I will do one next week and post the results. I am using an additional tablespoon of oil to see the effects. Hopefully it won't be a complete disaster. I want to see the limits to the amount of oil till the dough does not work as a pizza crust and becomes more of a true cracker or matzo. I'll post pics and step by step procedure.
  
 I could not pull up the Flickr pics, and I am a member. I wanna see. Maybe you could transfer them from there to this site. BTW, great description on how you created your pie. I learned some things by reading your experiment. Keep on trying, pizza making is the ultimate quest of all foodies.



 
« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 09:06:53 PM by nick57 »

Offline ThatsAmore

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #52 on: June 30, 2012, 10:23:27 PM »
Hey GardenPizza,

Glad you had some success.

Not sure if I missed this, but did you put corn meal down on your stone to keep dough from sticking ?

Remember, it's the setbacks that ultimately excel the persistent.  ;)



Who put that pie in my eye ?

Offline GardenPizza

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2012, 10:56:16 PM »
Hey Nick and Amore, thanks for your encouragement and kind words. 

I've corrected the Flickr link, give this one a try  http://www.flickr.com/photos/buttercrumb_kim/sets/72157630269314182/ 

This was indeed a fun experiment and I learned a lot.  I'm hooked.  Can hardly wait to make again in July for a nice summer dinner on the patio (if summer ever arrives in the Northwest).  Nick, will be curious to hear your latest when you have time. 

Amore, I did not use cornmeal on the stone, but probably should have.  I figured it wouldn't be needed given the parbake in the perforated pizza pan as the first skin popped right out cleanly before moving it directly to the stone, but that was a foolish assumption on my part!  Perhaps the skin was still a little tacky or there may have been something on the stone from the previous use that bonded.  Perhaps it was simply the skin overcooked.  And yes, I'll be watching very closely next time! 

Thanks again for sharing your words of wisdom.  Good conversation and good food shared is a great memory. 

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #54 on: July 15, 2012, 09:20:35 PM »
Well, I got some free time to make a pizza. I made the crust the same way as in the past, except I used 3.25 tablespoons of oil to see what effect it would have on the crust. I also docked the crust more thoroughly, the bubbles were getting a little extreme in their size. I noticed that the crust was a little softer than the last. It took less pressure to bite through, but was still crakery and very crisp. The non laminated areas were not chewy, they were nice, crisp, and not bread like. My tasters thought it was my best pizza to date. They loved the cracker like crust, and how lite it was. I must agree with them, and I was surprised it turned out so well. I don't think I'll try to add more oil to see what happens, I think I have reached that limit, besides, I like how this one turned out, and I am sticking with this recipe. I have posted pics of the process.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 09:46:13 PM by nick57 »

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #55 on: July 15, 2012, 09:21:33 PM »
I have added the yeast, water, and oil to the flour.

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #56 on: July 15, 2012, 09:23:05 PM »
I have folded the flour by hand into the liquid, and this is it after I dumped it onto the counter.

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #57 on: July 15, 2012, 09:32:05 PM »
As you can tell, it still has a lot of dry flour. As usual, I spritzed it with just enough water for the ball to stick together.

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #58 on: July 15, 2012, 09:35:00 PM »
I dumped the ball into the oiled KA mixer bowl, and made sure I got a good coverage of oil all over the ball. This is the dough after a 24 hour rise in the fridge.


Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #59 on: July 15, 2012, 09:37:06 PM »
I rolled the dough out to the thickness of a dime. I think the added oil eased the rolling, plus, I let the dough get up to room temp before rolling.

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #60 on: July 15, 2012, 09:39:09 PM »
This is after the par bake. The bubbles are a little smaller than my last two pies.

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #61 on: July 15, 2012, 09:40:29 PM »
Topped and ready to bake. I used Italian sausage, mozz, mushrooms, black olives, and diced tomatoes.

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #62 on: July 15, 2012, 09:42:02 PM »
I baked the pie at 425 degrees for about 10 minutes. I've just removed it from the oven.

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #63 on: July 15, 2012, 09:43:06 PM »
Nice crispy slices with a little lamination.

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #64 on: July 15, 2012, 09:44:46 PM »
Good browning on the bottom. This was one of my best so far, and I wanted to keep eating it. But. I thought the leftovers would make for a great breakfast.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 09:49:17 PM by nick57 »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #65 on: July 15, 2012, 10:29:33 PM »
That looks really good Nick...you are making some nice pies in this style, to be sure!
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Offline ThatsAmore

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #66 on: July 16, 2012, 12:10:04 AM »
Hey, now wait just a darn minute .... you didn't save me a slice!

Looks great !!!

 :pizza: :chef:
Who put that pie in my eye ?


Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #67 on: July 16, 2012, 11:40:07 AM »
Thanks! I tried using more oil as I was going along in this thread. I seem like the last amount of oil I used in my last pie. Though, I've been thinking about cutting Crisco into the dough instead of oil. I've seen on the forum that it might make for a more flaky crust. I also saw an America's Test Kitchen where they made a Chicago style deep dish pizza that was flaky. They rolled the dough out into a square and spread room temp butter on it. The dough was then rolled up like a Cinnamon roll, the cut in half and shaped into a ball. When it was rolled out and cooked, it had lots of layers that were flaky.
So, I think I will try this when I make my next pie. I'll post the results on this thread. Now, I am off for some leftover pizza, yummy!

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #68 on: July 16, 2012, 11:42:52 AM »
I believe that is a French technique for making puff pastry...filo dough too?
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Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #69 on: July 16, 2012, 05:31:35 PM »
It's like making pie dough also. Except that in pie dough the butter is not spread onto the dough but rather thin pieces of butter are placed between the layers of the dough. My last pizza, was not like pie crust, but I think if I had used more oil it would have had that texture. I think I have reached the limit for pizza crust, and if I used more oil it may be more like a real pie crust. Not what I was looking for. I don't think I can achieve the crust I am looking for using a home oven and store bought ingredients, but I am happy with what I have come up with so far. My friends and tasters love it, and it is better than the thin crust pizzas I can get in T town. Learning things that the Master pie makers have shared on this forum, I can make a pie that I can look forward to making and eating. My heartfelt thanks to them for sharing and their kindness in helping newcomers in learning the ropes.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 02:12:26 PM by nick57 »

Offline Jimmy V

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #70 on: July 16, 2012, 10:46:10 PM »
Nick.. can you post the ingredients in  Oz.  table spoons, teaspoons etc.   ?

Offline GardenPizza

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #71 on: July 18, 2012, 08:03:11 PM »
Nick, you are an individual after my own heart - pizza for breakfast, yes!!!

By the way, great trick for reheating pizza (for breakfast or otherwise) if you haven't already tried it....  Place a slice of leftover cold pizza in a non-stick pan (I love Swiss Diamond for this) on lowest stove heat.  Cover with a lid slightly ajar.  Check it after 5 or so minutes and voila, perfectly restored pizza as great as the night before. 

I am going to have to try the 3.25T oil variation next.  Thanks for sharing.

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #72 on: July 18, 2012, 08:47:36 PM »
Yes. I need to try that. I usually reheat in the stove. I have heard that using a pan instead of the oven helps in keeping the crust crisper than in the oven. I have noticed that reheating in the oven the the crust is not as crisp as the day before. Of course a cold slice of pizza sometimes hits the spot. I think my next experiment I will use butter and create several layers by rolling and folding the dough. I like how my last pie turned out, but I think this would be fun to try. My first try at pizza was Neapolitan. I found the Forno Bravo website and I was on my way to pizza heaven. Of course I don't have a WFO, and my oven only gets to 550 degrees, but I learned a lot. I don't remember how I got to this forum, but it was the luckiest day of my life. I am a pizza junkie, and proud of it.

Offline ThatsAmore

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #73 on: July 18, 2012, 09:49:19 PM »
Yes. I need to try that. I usually reheat in the stove. I have heard that using a pan instead of the oven helps in keeping the crust crisper than in the oven. I have noticed that reheating in the oven the the crust is not as crisp as the day before. Of course a cold slice of pizza sometimes hits the spot. I think my next experiment I will use butter and create several layers by rolling and folding the dough. I like how my last pie turned out, but I think this would be fun to try. My first try at pizza was Neapolitan. I found the Forno Bravo website and I was on my way to pizza heaven. Of course I don't have a WFO, and my oven only gets to 550 degrees, but I learned a lot. I don't remember how I got to this forum, but it was the luckiest day of my life. I am a pizza junkie, and proud of it.

I didn't notice until the other day AFTER posting in response to you that you're in Tulsa as well .... Hey Neighbor !!!  8)
Who put that pie in my eye ?

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #74 on: July 19, 2012, 03:33:43 PM »
Yep, I reside in Tulsa OK. Feels more like Death Valley, 108 degrees tomorrow so says the TV weather guy. Do you know of any pizza joints that make a good cracker crust in the local area? Have you tried Andolini's yet? I  thought it was one of best pies I have had in a while. Not cracker, I think they said it was like Neapolitan. I think they sell their dough balls for $4.00 I like to make my own dough, but in a pinch I think it would make a good pizza at home. I do like the Ken's pizza they sell at Mazzio's, but the crust is not as crisp as I would like. Pizza Hut has jumped the shark several years ago, their thin and crispy may be thin, but no way crispy.


 

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