Author Topic: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!  (Read 41205 times)

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Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #150 on: July 31, 2013, 05:32:26 PM »
You have some nice color on the crust. From your picture, the crust looks too thick, about twice as thick as it should be. The skin should be about the thickness of a dime or credit card after rolling out. I poke mine pretty heavy. I par bake the skin in the pan on the stone for about 3 minutes, then I place the skin on the stone, and finish the par bake, about another 2 minutes or till I start to get a few light brown spots. Be sure to let the skin cool down for about 5 to 10 minutes before topping and going back into the oven. Let me know how your progress goes.


Offline ct4640

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #151 on: August 07, 2013, 08:24:04 PM »
i tried again  and was happy with the results. if it gets better than this i wont be able to stand it. i decided to  try less yeast and a faster ferment so i did .5 % yeast and a 9 hr rise on the counter. it rose really well and was much easier to roll out. its  nice to know i  dont have to wait 24 hrs if i need  to hurry it up  a bit. i  also used the sams flour and was very satisfied with it especially since its 1/3  the cost of KA. with petes help we found out its 11%+  so im not gonna worry about using  vwg unless i have a failure where i think i need to bump it up.
thx nick for the work you put in on this. my wife and kids love it
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 09:04:05 PM by ct4640 »

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #152 on: August 08, 2013, 04:08:03 PM »
It's a thing of beauty.  :drool: I found that the longer rise improves the texture and flavor of the crust. Of course I know about having that same day pie fix. When I pull the dough out of fridge, I let it sit on the counter for about 2 hours. This really helps on the rolling action. I used the VWG on my last cracker just to see if I could tell a difference. It seemed to give the crust a softer bite, but did not impact the crispy, cracker like texture. I think it made it closer to the old school Pizza Hut crust. 11% sounds right on the flour, I thought it was around 10%. Of course my recipe calls KAFB. I may try KAAP next time to see what difference if would make.

I just added a new thread on the Chicago style pizza thread. It's my attempt at a Chicago thin crust. Check it out. If you like  crispy thin crusts, you'll love this one. It's almost the same procedure as cracker crusts. My next bake will a Chi style thin.

Congrats on your success! There is a lot of good info on the forum, and it's fun trying different styles.

BOOMER SOONER!!!
« Last Edit: August 08, 2013, 04:15:38 PM by nick57 »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #153 on: August 08, 2013, 07:31:22 PM »
I used the VWG on my last cracker just to see if I could tell a difference. It seemed to give the crust a softer bite, but did not impact the crispy, cracker like texture. I think it made it closer to the old school Pizza Hut crust.
Nick,  I sure like the sound of that.  ;)


ct, I like that you are trying different things with your dough. Keep up the good work man; your pizza looks great!  :chef:
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Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #154 on: August 08, 2013, 08:31:35 PM »
 If my memory serves me right, PH crust was light and flakey. It was not as light as a pie crust, but seemed to be airy and almost like a heavier saltine cracker. I am thinking of combing half baking soda and yeast. I think that I should make the crust thinner than I have. The saltine pizza dough was very thin, you could read printing through it. I have been using KABF for my cracker crust pies. I think using KABF flour may have made the crust tougher. The saltine recipes I have seen uses AP flour, and the pie I made using it was pretty close to PH, but just too delicate. I just know that my cracker pies are not quite as flakey and thin as the PH.

 My next pie was going to be a Chi style thin, but now you have me craving for a cracker. By the way, I did post my results of my Chicago thin crust. It was easy, and very tasty. I did Garvey's for my first try. My next Chi pie will be in the pan like Chicago Bob. You were right about how I would like it. This is the recipe I used to make my matzo pizza, though it's not really kosher. http://stresscake.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/something-easy-and-unlikely-homemade-saltines/
« Last Edit: August 08, 2013, 09:02:08 PM by nick57 »

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #155 on: August 08, 2013, 08:46:48 PM »
This pic shows my best attempt to date. As you can tell the by looking at the cross-section, it looks craggy and not smooth as I remember the way PH crust looked. The sliced edges looked smooth and thin as paper, this does not. Is my idea of PH pie from the 60's and early 70's the same as you remember?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2013, 09:02:52 PM by nick57 »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #156 on: August 08, 2013, 10:16:26 PM »
This pic shows my best attempt to date. As you can tell the by looking at the cross-section, it looks craggy and not smooth as I remember the way PH crust looked. The sliced edges looked smooth and thin as paper, this does not. Is my idea of PH pie from the 60's and early 70's the same as you remember?
Actually, no.  :)
In that pic I think you are right there on TF but I don't believe it was so craggy. Perhaps a more dense crispy evenly across entire crust. Your TF sure reminds me of the nice gbd crispy(but not hard crunch)rim on those pies that was formed by the low rimmed pan it was baked in.
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Offline ct4640

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #157 on: August 10, 2013, 09:06:38 PM »
we tried another cracker but this time tried rolling it out on a piece of parchment. just dock it and chunk it in the oven then pull the paper after a couple minutes.  turned out pretty good. its easier than using a pan for me.   cracker crust is starting to  give deep dish a run for its money for being the family favorite
« Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 10:34:00 PM by ct4640 »

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #158 on: August 10, 2013, 10:55:37 PM »
I am going to go off the deep end, and I am trying  something a little different for a cracker crust in the next week or so. I am going to modify a saltine cracker recipe and try to make it into a cracker crust pizza recipe. I think my crusts are too tough. This will include a mixture of yeast and baking soda, and all purpose flour. Glad your pies are turning out great! Why buy a pizza, when you can make one at home that is filled with love?


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #159 on: August 11, 2013, 10:18:59 AM »
I am going to go off the deep end, and I am trying  something a little different for a cracker crust in the next week or so. I am going to modify a saltine cracker recipe and try to make it into a cracker crust pizza recipe. I think my crusts are too tough. This will include a mixture of yeast and baking soda, and all purpose flour. Glad your pies are turning out great! Why buy a pizza, when you can make one at home that is filled with love?
You're my hero Nick.....please say you're going to have a little oil in there. I think that is maybe what made old school PH interesting....a sort of tender crackery crunch.
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #160 on: August 11, 2013, 01:28:16 PM »
The cracker recipe I am going to modify calls for butter. That would change the flavor profile of the crust. I was going to use vegetable oil, but maybe corn oil would be better. What do you think? I just got back from the store and got all my ingredients for the pie. Now I realized that I forgot the flour. It's OK, I am making the dough ball tomorrow night, and using it the next day. This may be a total failure, but you have to learn from your mistakes. I have used AP flour in a cracker crust before, and it seemed to work out well. I am going for a lighter, but still sturdy crust. If that makes any sense.

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #161 on: August 13, 2013, 08:55:47 PM »
Well, I think I have more questions than answers after this pie. I used this saltine cracker recipe for the crust, with modifications.
1 cup unbleached all-purpose flour

2 Tablespoons unsalted butter, melted

cup water

teaspoon kosher salt

water for brushing

kosher or sea salt for sprinkling

I doubled the recipe size. I modified it by adding yeast and baking soda.

This is what I came up with after converting the ingredients from volume to weight.

Flour 100% 253.14g
Water 47%  118.98g
Baking Soda  1/4 teaspoon
IDY   1%      1.27g  about 1/4 teaspoon
Salt   1%      1.27g  about 1/2 teaspoon
Oil     4 tablespoons

I made the dough using a food processor, and let the dough rest in the fridge for 24 hours. I proceeded in the shaping and cooking as usual. The skin was very crispy and was easy to bite though. It was nice, crispy, and light. But it did not turn out like the saltine crackers I had made in the past. I was thinking it was the higher cook temps. The crackers cooked at 400 degrees, but I par baked the skin at 550 and then finished at 425. I also was thinking that the yeast or baking powder was the cause. It was closer to a PH crust but something was still missing. It seemed too dense and did not puff up like the crackers. Then, when I was writing this, I realized I made a major mistake. I used 2 tablespoons of oil instead of of 4. So, this more closely follows my cracker pie crust recipe.
  I almost did not post this, but mistakes help us in our learning process. So this was a big one. Now I have to do this again, I'll be more careful when making the recipe. It was a good tasting pie, but not at all what I was hoping for. This is Monday, so I was due one mistake.

Later this week I am going to do the saltine cracker recipe. If it turns out like the recipe, I will use it to make a pizza. I will add some baking soda to see what kind of lift I get and flavor.

 
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 10:04:01 PM by nick57 »

Offline ct4640

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #162 on: August 13, 2013, 10:58:21 PM »
that looks great to me. so 2  T butter and 4 T oil? dumb question here but  i  must have missed something.when do you brush with water? i will have to try butter and baking soda. i can get thinner rolling out right on the parchment rather than transferring to a  pan  but im not even close to being in your league yet. mine eat good  but you are on another level. very nice

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #163 on: August 14, 2013, 09:10:02 AM »
I did not use any butter, I was going to use 4 tablespoons of oil instead, but forgot I had doubled the recipe size when adding the oil. Hence, I only added 2 tablespoons of oil instead of the 4 that doubling the recipe called for. I did not brush the skin with water since this was going to be a pizza crust instead of being plain crackers.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #164 on: August 14, 2013, 09:30:52 AM »
Looks pretty good though Nick...did you get any "soda" cracker taste?
Good catch on the oil; that should make a big difference next go around. Personally, I would like to see the crust color quite a bit lighter....maybe 450 par and then 425 bake.  Keep up the great work man, appreciate it!  :chef:
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Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #165 on: August 14, 2013, 10:51:50 AM »
No soda taste that I could detect. I know if you use too much, the product can have a medicine taste. I had made another skin two nights before using a different recipe. It also had that yellow cast to the skin and it was hard like peanut brittle. I have heard that baking soda can cause browning in baked and fried goods. I am just going to make some soda crackers again. If they turn out OK, I will do a pizza crust using the same recipe. If I like the results, I will start upping the baking soda till I just get a faint hint of the flavor. I won't post results on those, but will post after I start getting some better results. This may take a lot of tries and time. The toppings won't be up to par either. I am more interested in getting the skin right.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #166 on: August 14, 2013, 11:16:08 AM »
No soda taste that I could detect. I know if you use too much, the product can have a medicine taste. I had made another skin two nights before using a different recipe. It also had that yellow cast to the skin and it was hard like peanut brittle. I have heard that baking soda can cause browning in baked and fried goods. I am just going to make some soda crackers again. If they turn out OK, I will do a pizza crust using the same recipe. If I like the results, I will start upping the baking soda till I just get a faint hint of the flavor. I won't post results on those, but will post after I start getting some better results. This may take a lot of tries and time. The toppings won't be up to par either. I am more interested in getting the skin right.
10-4...sounds good.   And yes, soda adds browning; The Dough Doctor just posted about that over on the sweet an sour chicken thread.
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Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #167 on: August 18, 2013, 09:37:01 PM »
Just an update, no pics. I did the cracker recipe with baking soda and without. I was not happy with the results. The skins were not very crispy, and a little leathery. It did have some of the qualities of a PH pizza skin, but was too soft. The skins with the baking soda had a slight tingle to the tongue when eating, not sure what that means. I am thinking that the hydration may be too high. So, I will lower it on my next try. Sorry, for the bad news, but it makes me want to keep giving it the old college try. As an artist, 75% of all paintings I do are losers. That is the norm. So, having failures is the road to learning what works and what does not.

Offline norma427

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #168 on: August 18, 2013, 10:41:41 PM »
Nick,

It is great that you gave the baking soda the old college try.  8) I agree that is the way we all learn. 

I didn't exactly work with baking soda in any cracker style pizza crust, but did work with Clabber Girl baking powder and IDY to make a Sukie Pizza with Peter's help and formulation at Reply 63 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13686.msg137736.html#msg137736  The Sukie pizza with the chemical leavening system and IDY did turn out well at Reply 74 and the next posts.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13686.msg137842.html#msg137842 

Dont' ask me to explain a chemical leavening system though in combination with IDY.  That is far too complicated for me to do.  :-D

Norma

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #169 on: January 19, 2014, 01:27:55 PM »
 I ran across the Pat's pizza thread in the Chicago style section. I thought it would be interesting to let the skin sit in the fridge for a few hours before topping like the Pat's pizza in the video. I used my cracker crust recipe and let the dough sit in the fridge for 48 hours. I let the dough warm up on the counter for 2 hours before rolling out. I rolled the skin thinner than my normal cracker crust. I placed it in between 2 sheets of parchment paper and put it in the fridge for 3 hours. I removed the skin which was drier and docked it very heavily. I sprayed the crust with oil, then topped with sauce and toppings. I placed it on a 550 degree stone, and set the oven temp to 450. I cooked the pie about 10 minutes before I pulled it.
  It was very crispy and had a little lamination also. The crust was good and crispy, but a little harder to bite through than my normal cracker crusts. I am going to try this again and use a combo of KAAP and KABF to see if it will give me a softer bite. My taster liked it. Of course using the Garvey sausage recipe and Pete's PJ's clone sauce, it was mighty tasty. It was the closest I have gotten to a 60's era PH thin but the bite was harder than the PH crust.
 
« Last Edit: January 19, 2014, 01:40:55 PM by nick57 »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #170 on: January 19, 2014, 09:07:00 PM »
Wow...that pizza looks really tasty Nick. Keep up the good work and experiments dude!  :chef:

Bob
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Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #171 on: January 19, 2014, 11:26:05 PM »
Thanks Bob ;D I really liked how this one turned out. I am getting closer to the PH thin. On my next pie I will go with a 20% AP and 80% BF in the hopes of getting a lighter bite. I remember the crust from the mid 60's as having a delicate bite, almost like biting into air. It was crispy but had a very easy bite, and did not fill you up. I may have to make my fave pie (Chi Town thin) before I try this style again. One thing I did not like was the reheated leftovers. I did the usual in the pan reheat, and the skin did not crisp up, not sure how to remedy that.

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #172 on: January 19, 2014, 11:38:06 PM »
I forgot to mention that I may not par bake the skin anymore. By drying the skin and docking, plus coating in oil, I did not have the gum line problem. I will dock the next a little less to get more lamination. I did the heavy docking thinking the skin would rise and become more bread like than cracker.The way it is going, I will make my purrrfect pie, then die the next day. What a way to go :-D

Offline PizzaGarage

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #173 on: January 29, 2014, 10:23:51 PM »
Thanks Bob ;D I really liked how this one turned out. I am getting closer to the PH thin. On my next pie I will go with a 20% AP and 80% BF in the hopes of getting a lighter bite. I remember the crust from the mid 60's as having a delicate bite, almost like biting into air. It was crispy but had a very easy bite, and did not fill you up. I may have to make my fave pie (Chi Town thin) before I try this style again. One thing I did not like was the reheated leftovers. I did the usual in the pan reheat, and the skin did not crisp up, not sure how to remedy that.

If you would like a softer bite ( but still just as crispy ) you can use 10% semolina and 90% AP  You can expirement up to 15% semolina.  The reheat will be better as well. BF will get you a thougher chew.  The Semolina might get you closer to your desired texture.  Good luck!

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #174 on: January 30, 2014, 04:29:06 PM »
Thanks for the info PizzaGarage! I'm gonna try the mix of AP/BF on next try. I liked how my crust turned out on my Chi town pie using AP flour. I do have some semolina and AP flour on hand, so I will give it a try. Do I need to adjust my hydration when using this combo of flours?


 

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