Author Topic: Rough Guide to fermentation time using sourdough starter  (Read 8029 times)

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Offline anton-luigi

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Re: Rough Guide to fermentation time using sourdough starter
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2012, 12:28:37 PM »
wow,  that does look odd,  I ferment in a rubbermaid tub,  not in a box like you have.  Would appear that it over-fermented,  but instead of bubbling up through the top,  it just expanded "outwards" due to the lack of a sidewall restraint.   Looks like stretch marks on a multi-para womans belly   :)


Offline Everlast

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Re: Rough Guide to fermentation time using sourdough starter
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2012, 12:48:43 PM »
I was thinking it kind of looked like baked cookies. When I tried to work with the dough, it just tore into pieces.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Rough Guide to fermentation time using sourdough starter
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2012, 07:16:35 PM »
This is the result of 2% Ischia starter at 65F for 36 hours. I then had it at about 80F for 8 hours, and then 84F for 2-3 hours. The dough was completely ruined. Even reballing it couldn't save it. I've never seen this before. What did I do wrong? Too high of a temp?

Damian,

I would say that your dough was fatally overfermented, and was due primarily to the high temperatures and long fermentation times of the last two stages (80F for 8 hours and 84F for 2-3 hours). The cause of death most likely was the action of the protease enzymes (and acids and alcohol) to destroy the gluten structure. In the past, I have intentionally tried to destroy doughs through overfermentation in order to learn more about how that happens and to be able to identify the symptoms. I have done it with doughs leavened with commercial yeast and also by natural leavening systems. A couple places where I discussed what a severely overfermented dough looks and behaves like is at Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3203.msg27125/topicseen.html#msg27125 and at Reply 36 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11989.msg112445/topicseen.html#msg112445.

Peter

Offline Everlast

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Re: Rough Guide to fermentation time using sourdough starter
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2012, 08:06:00 PM »
Peter,

That seems to be exactly what happened. It was if the gluten structure just completely disappeared from the dough. Member Lido's dough looked very similar to mine and the accompanying descriptions of dough characteristics are identical. And yes, the flavor of the dough was actually pretty good for the 2 out of 4 pizzas that I was able to successfully launch into my WFO. It definitely ruined my night since it was the only dough I had on hand and I had already prepped some really nice ingredients for all 4 pizzas. However, I was able to re-appropriate some of the ingredients for the next morning - the fresh mozzarella, havarti, pancetta, brussel sprout, and roasted garlic omelette had my wife and I forgetting the night before.

I had no idea this sort of result was possible, but now that I do, I'll pay much more attention to time and temperature. It seems the learning curve for well-made dough using a starter is much greater than for using ADY. I'm 1 for 3 so far.

Thanks for enlightening me on this!

Damian

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Rough Guide to fermentation time using sourdough starter
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2012, 06:53:08 PM »
Craig, is this what you mean by dissolve your dough? This is the result of 2% Ischia starter at 65F for 36 hours. I then had it at about 80F for 8 hours, and then 84F for 2-3 hours. The dough was completely ruined. Even reballing it couldn't save it. I've never seen this before. What did I do wrong? Too high of a temp?


Yes, sort-of. I agree with Peter's assessment of the cause of your break down. I was referring to a similar phenomenon - if you add enough of a enzymatically active (and to a lesser extent acidic) starter, you can actually break down the gluten in your dough right from the get go. When making a dough with my SF starter, if you get much over 25% culture, the dough will never even form a ball in the mixer. It just turns to slop right there. Ischia is not far behind.

I have baked dough that look like yours. It has happened a couple times when I was trying to make very sour bread. The loves looked awful and were generally dense, but they had a lot of flavor.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
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