Author Topic: Need help on best baking surface for my oven setup  (Read 1789 times)

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Offline nicu2001

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Need help on best baking surface for my oven setup
« on: July 04, 2012, 07:10:02 PM »
First, my setup is as follows:

The oven is gas and the setting goes to 500.  It has a regular and convection setting.  The burner for baking comes from a gas burner under the bottom of the oven.

http://us.bertazzoni.com/freestanding/professional-series/ranges/36-6-burner-gas-range

I currently use a 13" All-Clad soapstone pizza stone and have had what I think are good results in my newbie adventures.  A few of my pizzas:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,19532.20.html

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,19674.0.html

My soapstone reaches 550-600 after an hour pre-heat.  The problem is that it is only 13" and I would like to make some 16" pizzas.  Does anyone have any recommendations for me given my setup?  I am aiming to make a solid NY Style pizza as well as Greek style and grandma style pizzas. 

Thanks!


scott123

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Re: Need help on best baking surface for my oven setup
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2012, 10:24:13 PM »
Mike, please clarify these specs:

Oven Dimensions 29½ x 141/8 x 181/8

If that 14 1/8" dimension is either depth or width, a 16" pizza is out of the question.

Measure your oven shelf.  Take special notice of any lips that might get in the way of the stone and subtract those from the dimensions.

Greek and grandma styles generally require slightly lower temps than NY, so, if a stone can do NY, you can always turn the oven down for Greek and grandma.

For NY in a home oven with either convection and/or a broiler in the main compartment, 1/2" steel plate is ideal. From the soapstone you're working with, it's a step up in conductivity and thermal mass, both of which will trim baking time off the undercrust. Combined with convection and/or broiling (for a fast top bake), you can achieve ideal NY bake times of 4-5 minutes @550 deg.

Offline nicu2001

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Re: Need help on best baking surface for my oven setup
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2012, 07:31:25 AM »
You are exactly right, I only have about 14.5" in depth and the width is almost 27".  Looks like I am stuck making 14" round pies.  Would a 1/2" Steel Plate be my best bet?  My 13" soapstone achieves 5 minute NY Style 12" pizzas as it is but I would like to step up to 14".

Thanks
Mike

scott123

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Re: Need help on best baking surface for my oven setup
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2012, 09:09:33 AM »
That's disappointing to hear about the depth.

Yup, 1/2" steel plate is your best bet.  If you have 14.5" of depth, use every fraction of an inch.  Launching a 14" pie on a 14.5" x 14.5" hearth is a lot easier than launching it on 14".  Size it incredibly carefully.  You want to use every last bit of shelf real estate, but, at the same time, you don't want it to be a tiny bit too large and have the door not shut on you.

Offline pizzaneer

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Re: Need help on best baking surface for my oven setup
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2012, 09:24:53 AM »
Scott, not to venture a completely opposing view, just a variation...  what do you think about using 2 materials in combination to give a double benefit package?

Use the thermal mass of the already-present soapstone, and top it with a 1/8" sheet of steel for quick conduction.  The heat lost to the pie would be quickly replenished by the heat stored in the stone.   If the steel were thicker, the stone heat would be farther from the baking surface, and thus less effective at maintaining temp.

I ask because I had good results with a 1/8" stainless sheet over quarry tiles.
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

scott123

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Re: Need help on best baking surface for my oven setup
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2012, 12:51:46 AM »
Brian, the all clad soapstone baking stone Mike is using has a lip on it, so it wouldn't work for stacking, but I have given considerable thought to multi material stone scenarios.

All clad cookware benefits tremendously from combining materials, but one of the reasons it works so well is that the layers are welded together. Any time you combine materials, there's always going to be air gaps.  I've given thought to a high temp thermal compound that could bridge too materials, but my thoughts are still preliminary.

Your stainless/quarry tile setup- is that in a home oven or LBE?  If it's a home oven, what bake times are you seeing?

Offline pizzaneer

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Re: Need help on best baking surface for my oven setup
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2012, 01:55:38 AM »
Up late too buddy?

The setup was from a previous iteration, before I found this marvelous piece of something in the woods. (You remember, right? I cut it in half, and used half in the LBE, half in the kitchen oven.) The setup did well, even without any kind of bonding agent.  I can only think that somehow the warp at high temps actually made it snug closer to the tile.  A happy accident due to shape and composition?  I was seeing about 3-4 minute bakes at 550.  Nice spring, crust finishing, top browning accomplished by broiler.

I like your idea of a bonding agent.  Do you have any ideas on what to use?
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

scott123

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Re: Need help on best baking surface for my oven setup
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2012, 02:56:30 AM »
 ;D Brian, I work IT, usually at night, so it's pretty normal for me to up at this hour.

How many turns are you doing during those 3-4 minute bakes?

It depends on the temperature, but for home oven temps, I think graphite is the answer. From what I've read, the thermal (and I think electrical) conductivity is a bit wonky/directional, but for our purposes, it should show a marked improvement in heat transfer.

Offline pizzaneer

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Re: Need help on best baking surface for my oven setup
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2012, 07:35:35 AM »
Hey Mr. IT Guy Scott, what does fdisk:c mean? When I turn on my computer, its just blue now.
 
Two IT guys were chatting in a pub after work.
Alpha:  “Guess what, mate,” says the first IT guy, “yesterday, I met this gorgeous blonde girl in a bar.”
Beta:  “What did you do?” says the other IT guy.
Alpha:  “Well, I invited her over to my place, we had a couple of drinks, we got into the mood and then she suddenly asked me to make her feel special”
Beta:  “You’re kidding me!” says the second IT guy.
Alpha:  “I then I lifted her and put her on my desk next to my new laptop.”
Beta:  “Really? You got a new laptop? What configuration?”
Alpha:  “It’s a 1 GB RAM and mobile internet connectivity card and 180GB HARDDISK..Wi-Fi….”


Scott, I never had to turn the pie.  The metal smoothed out the usual temp drop in the front due to opening the door.
Graphite adhesive... damn, was hoping it was cheaper. It does sound like a really interesting addition to our arsenal of pizzalogy. http://www.graphitestore.com/itemDetails.asp?item_id=42&prd_id=6&cat_id=29&curPage=1
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

scott123

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Re: Need help on best baking surface for my oven setup
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2012, 09:00:19 AM »
Only a gig ram? She's not going to feel very special about that  :-D

Actually, when I talk about graphite, I'm not referring to adhesive, just pure graphite powder, no bonding agent:

http://www.utrechtart.com/General-Pencil-General-s-Pure-Powdered-Graphite-6-oz-Jar-MP41841-i1011566.utrecht

I'm not 100% certain what temperature graphite would be safe to, but I'm certain it will be fine for NY temps.  There's cheaper graphite powders than this one- I just picked it because it says 'pure graphite powder.'


Offline pizzaneer

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Re: Need help on best baking surface for my oven setup
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2012, 09:54:21 AM »
err... wouldn't that be like taking a million pencil cores, grinding them up and putting them in your oven?  I hate the smell of pencil sharpeners, it brings back the trauma.

What if the stone broke, or you had to pick up the steel - wouldn't you get a layer of fine graphite powder all over the bottom of the stove?

I think I like the adhesive better...
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

scott123

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Re: Need help on best baking surface for my oven setup
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2012, 11:56:03 AM »
http://gokimco.com/loctite-83104-hysol-9340-high-temperature-epoxy-adhesive.html

I don't know what temp this goes to, but I think it might be okay for NY temps.  You could, in theory, increase the conductivity, by adding some powdered aluminum.

If you wanted to to be sure to be rated to a high enough temp, there's always furnace cement- furnace cement mixed with aluminum powder might do the trick.

On the other hand, you could use graphite powder, and, when it comes time to remove the stone, take the top one off and vacuum up the powder.

Another idea that came to me is powdered tin mixed with aluminum powder to prevent it from flowing.  At 500, the tin would liquify/fill cracks and provide superior conductivity. The only catch would be that you'd need to make sure to use enough aluminum that the tin wouldn't flow far.


Offline pizzaneer

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Re: Need help on best baking surface for my oven setup
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2012, 12:43:55 PM »
Let me drop this link for graphite adhesive again:  max temp is 5400F. 
At $100 per pint, not cheap, but not too horrible either.

http://www.graphitestore.com/itemDetails.asp?item_id=42&prd_id=6&cat_id=29&curPage=1
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.


 

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