Imperial Convection oven

[crowbarandgrill]

We are getting an Imperial gas 1CV-2 double convection oven for all of our cooking. I would love to use a large pizza oven but we are very limited on space. I understand that this will be a bit of a challenge but I don't feel like it is impossible. What is your experience with pizza's in convection ovens? What is the best method? Mesh pizza screens? Perforated Pizza screens.

Our equipment is set to come in next friday and be installed over that weekend so we haven't had any time to really experiment yet so just looking for advice before it comes in.

Thanks,
Andy
The Crowbar & Grill

[crowbarandgrill]

C'mon guys. Ream me as much as you want but I really would like some feedback!

[buceriasdon]

Andy, I assume you are wanting to bake American style pizza? In that oven I'm not very excited about how they are going to turn out.Have you considered going with a thin and crispy baked in cutter pans? Maybe a Greek or tavern pizza?
Don
ps. I went back to your first post just now, hence the modification but only to say you want to match your pizza style to your oven, not the other way around. Bar room style seems to be the best fit for you.

[crowbarandgrill]

I am kind of open to different styles as long as I can figure out an effective way to also deliver some pizza by the slice options for come-in and walk-out patrons on the go. Laramie is a college town and we anticipate to be the only place downtown serving food til 2am. Bad idea? I know.

[buceriasdon]

I wouldn't think a thin and crispy/tavern pizza should be a problem for selling by the slice.

[crowbarandgrill]

So what is the best method for cooking? What kind of screen? Dough ideas?

[buceriasdon]

I would look at the Chicago thin threads as well as a search for tavern pizza. As your oven will not have a stone you will need some sort of a pan, perforated may be the best but I'm really just guessing.I use mesh screens and remove the pizza from the screen after it sets then finish on the stone in my deck oven. Different animal.
Don

[scott123]

I think you mean 'conveyor' oven rather than 'convection,' correct?

I googled 'The Crowbar & Grill' and noticed that you are planning on selling 'high end' food and beer. IMO, neither American, Tavern or Chicago Thin Crust are 'high end' styles.  Neapolitan, as perceived this moment by the American public, is probably the 'highest' end style, but you won't ever get a Neapolitan pizza out of a conveyor oven.  You next best bet, imo, is Neo-NY or NY. Your conveyor might be able to handle as low as 4 minute NY bakes, giving you something high-ish end, but still being highly accessible, highly marketable to your late night college crowd, as well as offering slices that warm up nicely.

I believe one of the factors in getting fast bakes out of conveyors is maximizing bottom heat intensity by utilizing dark baking discs, although if the oven is pumping out enough BTUs, you might be able to get away with screens.  How many BTUs is your oven?

[buceriasdon]

Scott, I googled that model of oven before I posted and it's a convection baking oven.
http://www.zesco.com/Imperial-ICV-2-Commercial-Gas-Convection-Ovens-Double-Deck-pz326D028.htm
Don

[scott123]

Oh, it's an 'I'CV, not a 1CV- I googled 1CV and came up with nothing.

Good catch, Don.

Andy, disregard my last post.

500 F is really anemic for a pizza oven, even for a convection one.

I still stand by my NY recommendation, but, to get this oven up to par, I'd do to things.

1. Investigate modding the thermostat so that it will hit 550. 550 shouldn't harm the oven in any fashion and those extra 50 degrees make a world of difference when baking pizzas.

2. Purchase 1/2" steel plate (or possibly 3/8") hearths to rest on the oven shelves.

With 1/2" steel plate decks in place with a thermostat that will hit 550, you can get some great pizza from this.

[crowbarandgrill]

Yeah, it is a convection oven. the 1CV is how it's quoted on my equipment list from the restaurant supply store but ICV is correct. Thanks for the responses too.

I have heard about modding the thermostat to get a little higher temp out of them and perfectly understand that would help a lot so I will be looking into that. Not sure where to start but probably my electrician?

The steel plates are a good idea to get a good bottom crust but wouldn't a thin mesh screen work too? It would heat everything so evenly I think, but just speculation. It will take some experimenting for sure.

I use "high-end" in my description of the restaurant simply to mean that we are making simple food but doing it very well. I love Laramie but we are extremely lacking in food done really well. We're trying to encompass that high-end low-brow food side and dress up simple recipes. For example, we also want to do burgers, but we are grinding our beef chuck daily from Laramie beef and getting our buns from the local bakery down the street and using greens that are growing on a live greens wall IN the restaurant.

[buceriasdon]

Andy, The installers of the oven will be the ones to speak to about changing the thermostat. You do understand once you kick up the temp and what ever other modifications needed to bake a decent pizza that half of the oven will be too hot perhaps to use for other purposes during operating hours. What else will you be baking to serve? That's a lot of oven space. I still think screens or perforated pans are more suitable for your situation. a short thread:   http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=7163.0
Don

[scott123]

A hearth, as we all know, is a heatsink.  The pre-heat loads the baking stone with energy so that when you launch the pie, that contact with the hot stone delivers a blast of oven spring providing heat. Anything placed between the pizza and the stone is going to slow that transfer down and produce longer bakes. Removing the stone from the equation and using the hot air in the oven slows the bake down even further. The circulating air of convection helps to mitigate that impact a bit, but a screen in a stoneless environment is always going to produce a longer baked, potentially oven spring deprived pizza.

Now, you can go American style, ramp the oil content and get good spring with long bakes, but American style has a close association with chain pizza, and, while American might fall under 'high-end low-brow,' I don't think you want to be associated with the chains in any way.  Just like you probably don't want people saying that your burger reminds them of McDonalds, you probably don't want people saying that your pizza reminds them of Papa Johns.

Imo, I don't think you can get get any more 'high-end low-brow' than a great NY style pie.  Just like your burger isn't re-inventing the wheel- just taking a favorite food, using better ingredients and some more attention to detail, your pizza can be very accessible, very comfort food-y, but still be earth shatteringly good.

Here's a good thread on thermostat modifications:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17932.msg181128.html#msg181128

[buceriasdon]

Scott, I just have my concerns that taking up one whole half of the oven just for pizza might interfer with other operations in the kitchen. That's of course is up to Andy to decide as having two oven sections does give him that option. I think we both can agree a dedicated pizza oven would have been a bettter solution.
Don

[The Dough Doctor]

Crowbar:
Convection ovens are possibly the poorest type of oven for baking pizzas in. The main problem has to do with the bottom not getting done and the top getting over done. If you don't mind the extra work, you could tent the top of the pizzas with a piece of foil for a good portion of the baking time, until the bottom has a chance to bake, then uncover the top and finish baking. You will need to experiment to find out just how long to tent. Another option is to put some stones into the oven, but keep in mind that this disrupts the convection airflow so the baking of other items will most likely be affected. The stones would allow you to get a better/faster bottom bake. You could also make par-baked crusts, then dress and bake to the order. In a convection oven, by the time the top is finished baking, the bottom will be sufficiently reheated for serving. Experiment with this one to see if you like it first, not everyone does, but remember you options are few.
Can you install a small counter top air impingement or infrared oven? These are good if you won't have high volume pizza sales, and they don't take up much space at all (think Blodgette, Middleby Marshall, and possibly Lincoln for one of these).
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

[buceriasdon]

Tom, That's been my concern with adding stones, steel, what have you to one half of the oven. It will not work as designed for other baking and Andy would be better off figure out some way to have a dedicated pizza oven. Just my take on it.
Don

[scott123]

Convection ovens are made to work with full sheet pans.  If full sheet pans aren't going to block the air flow, pizza stones won't either.

[buceriasdon]

Scott, Excellent point and I can't argue the logic. Makes sense to me.
Don

[scott123]

Thanks, Don. I will concede, though, that if Andy wants to use these ovens for items other than pizza, 550 is going to be hard to work with. Perhaps you can roast some thin veggies like asparagus or string beans, but the kinds of things you'd normally use these ovens for- finishing a steak, roasting potatoes, baking up wings, I don't think 550 convection is going to work for these.