Can Anyone Replicate Pizza From Tomato Pizza Pie Joint (TPPJ)? Please Look

[PizzaEater101]

I mentioned them in the restaurant review section but hardly had any replies.  I put this hear because from the looks of it without anyone trying it unless they are local to the area can you give clues on this pie?  Do your detective work guys, I know you are good, look at the Luigi discussion.  You guys did well. Guys includes gals like Norma too. 

I think that TPPJ is a good pie, really good.  A delicate pie with great texture and taste but certainly way overpriced.

I don't mean their square pizza but the traditional thin crust round -

http://tomatopiepizzajoint.com/

Here is a YouTube video.  Probably can't get much out of this but here it is. I don't know what they are saying because my sound is out on my computer but hope its' something useful -

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGrxqHQSojM" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGrxqHQSojM</a>

Another one.  Hope she is saying good things because as noted I can't hear on my computer now.  I'll fix it one day -

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQIhb40uAl0&amp;feature=related" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQIhb40uAl0&amp;feature=related</a>

Thanks

[scott123]

The pizza may be good, but they're confused about the name.  A Tomato Pie is a Trenton Style pizza, not a NY style pizza.  These are very traditional looking NY style pizzas (much like Luigi's) and they talk about NY recipes in both videos and on the website.

She talks about 'high protein flour' in the video, so, it could be, like Luigi's 13%, and since it's California, it could likely be Pendleton power flour.  OR... there's always a chance it could be 12% Mondako.

The way he's tossing it seems to mirror Luigi's as well.

The only noticeable difference I can detect is less browning. If, say, Luigi's is doing a 5 minute bake, this place could be baking at a similar temp but taking the pizza out in 4 minutes.

From this page here:

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2011/02/daily-slice-los-angeles-tomato-pie-pizza-joint-silver-lake-review.html

the crumb doesn't appear to be a same day dough (like Luigi's), but... it could be an unbleached flour, which might skew that result.

Imo, this pizza is so similar to Luigi's that you're kind of splitting hairs by attempting to reverse engineer it. It's also important to remember that Luigi's is a solid commercial offering, but it's not home pizza. Mike can sometimes get a little distracted, but I've seen him do pies that were better than Luigi's/TPPJ.  Get some Power Flour, 60-61% hydration, 2-3% oil, ferment it for 2 days, bake it for 4-5 minutes, stretch it to .075, and, I promise you, it will be a step (or two) above Luigi's and TPPJ.

Edit: Changed flour recommendation.

[norma427]

James,

I agree with Scott123, it would be hard to reverse engineer this pie, but Luigi’s does look similar. I don’t know if you can purchase a dough ball, but that might be a way to know what protein flour they might be using by doing a gluten mass test.  Trying to reverse engineer any pizza can take a long while. 

Maybe you might just want to do experiment along the lines of what Scott123 suggested.  It also would be hard to replicate that pie in your home oven. 

Norma

[PizzaEater101]

Scott and Norma, thank you for the replies.  Yeah, be hard to reverse engineer it.  I'm gonna try your suggestion Scott for the what you suggest about the Mondako, 60-61% hydration, 2-3% oil, ferment it for 2 days, bake it for 4-5 minutes, stretch it to .075.  What amount of yeast do you suggest?  I have IDY at home that I use.  Also, do you suggest any sugar and which percentage?

Scott, is there a big difference in Mondako and Power Flour in terms of end result?  Not necessarily the specs for the flour but the end result pie?  I have access to both Mondako and Power Flour.  I have not purchased either yet but can easily at Costco Business Center.  I'd go for Mondako because you suggest it but wondering what the differences is for the end result.

Thanks for that Serious Eats link.  I read the comments and people have recognized that the slices are not big at all and for the price the slice is too small.  I mentioned something like this at Chowhound and I was basically told that I don't know what I'm talking about and I'm cheap.  I mean they didn't say cheap but I think they are implying that because I felt such a small slice for $3.00 was overpriced that I am a tight wad and can't afford such a pie.  It's not that for me, just the slice is half the size of comparable NY Style pizzas like Luigi.  Luigi and TPPJ are no where close, they are two hours away but just an example of how TPPJ is overpriced in my book.

Norma, you are right it's hard to replicate in a home oven situation.  My home oven is smaller so I can't do 18 inches and I'm sure the heating dynamics aren't close to a professional oven.  Sometimes I get good results and sometimes I don't.


Thanks!

[PizzaEater101]

Scott I just read your post about the differences in Power Flour and Mondako flour in the discussion the poster was having trouble making a good pie.  The one where he said he baked it for 14 minutes I think it was.  You suggested Mondako for a good NY Pie. It had to do with the protein content of the Mondako which is diff from Power Flour. 


Thanks

[scott123]

James, although I have no direct experience with Mondako, I worship at the altar of bromated 12.7%ish (medium high gluten) flour.  You get that little bit of chewiness, but not so much that it's tough and all the oven spring is there.  You also get a large kneading window- you can knead it a little too long and not have to worry about toughness.

Pendleton is a solid company and I've seen what Power flour can do, so, based upon Pendleton's merits and my love for 12.7%ish flour (and your lack of access to bromate), I'm 99% certain that, for a Californian looking to make the best possible NY style pie, Mondako is it.

Luigi's (100% power flour) looks pretty good, and I'm not hearing any complaints about toughness, so 13% protein power flour isn't horrible, but I think Mondako is the better choice- or maybe a Mondako/Power blend. But I would start with 100% Mondako and go from there.

Edit: Sorry, my numbers were off on Power and Mondako.  Power, at 13% protein, is my recommendation for NY style for Californians. Go with the Power Flour.

I can't speak for TPPJ, but Luigi's has sugar.  I would start with 1% and then experiment with as much as 2%.

I'm at .5% IDY with my own medium high gluten flour (Spring King) on a 48 hour ferment and 62% hydration, but my yeast is a little old, so you might want to start with .4% and go from there.  If room temp (flour temp) is a little warm for you (80 or higher), then you might go down even further to .3%.   Yeast always takes a little trial and error. Be conservative and if you undershoot it, leave the dough out at room temp a little longer prior to baking.

[PizzaEater101]

Thanks for the update Scott.  I will get the Power Flour then per your suggestion.  I have some flour still that I need to use up first but when that is gone I will get the Power Flour.

[PizzaEater101]

Scott, I was at Costco Business Center and not only did they have Power Flour they had both unbleached and bleached versions of it. I'm glad my wife caught that because I did not notice they had both.  Which is preferred, bleached or unbleached Power Flour?


Thanks

[scott123]

James, prior to getting into pizza, I always kind of felt that unbleached flour tasted a bit better, but, for pizza, bleached is the way to go.

[PizzaEater101]

James, prior to getting into pizza, I always kind of felt that unbleached flour tasted a bit better, but, for pizza, bleached is the way to go.

Curious why is bleached the way to go? Did your taste change over the years or is it better for coloration and charring?  Thanks.