Author Topic: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO  (Read 27094 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23600
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO
« Reply #75 on: August 22, 2012, 07:34:10 AM »
Mike,

From your description, it sounds like your dough fermented too long. However, I think your proposed solution of lowering the hydration value might help. You might also find at some point that lowering the amount of yeast will also help. These are the sorts of things that I discovered from my own experiments, as discussed, for example, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7225.msg62332.html#msg62332.

Peter


Online TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16280
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO
« Reply #76 on: August 22, 2012, 10:04:48 AM »
First let me congratulate you some truly beautiful pies. They are easily among the best homemade WFO pies I've ever seen. I would have no issue with the level of charring on the bottom. The top, and especially the bottom, have the look I would like to see. I think you are definitely on the right path - just fine tuning now.

When you say the dough "lacked structure," do you mean is was overly extensible? My dough is extremely extensible. Gravity itself is almost enough to do all the work. My gut feeling is that you are not overfermenting.

Caputo flour, correct? How long are you working it in the mixer? About the same as I described? The acids prodcued by the SD culture I use will tighten the dough a little, it may be that is the only difference. You might try letting it go a little longer in the mixer. How tight do you ball the dough? When making my balls, I fold the edges under and up into the middle of the ball, over and over, until they are very tight - any tighter and I'd tear the skin. A little flour on the top of the ball helps. Pinch them closed at the bottom leaving as little seam as possible. If that doesn't work, try giving it a couple (2) folds just before you ball it.

I think Scott is right that I let my balls rise up just a touch more than you did, but not much.

Keep on it. I think you are really close.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Michael130207

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 138
  • Location: Maryland
Re: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO
« Reply #77 on: August 22, 2012, 10:27:09 AM »
Thanks Craig. I think your ideas for improvement are right on target. It was Caputo Pizzeria, just bought 25kg worth. The initial balls were very tight but quickly relaxed to a pancake inthe containers. I did mean extensible and I believe your suggestion to let it go longer in the mixer is correct. I followed your instructions as closely as I could but I think some of the mixer mixing were ineffective c-hook shinanigans. These balls were so extensible that they became distorted with turning out of the container. Most of my shaping was to get them back into a round. If I had put them on the backs of my hands they would have torn. I plan to eventually go back to sourdough and maybe that will help too.

For the next round I will drop hydration to 60%, work the dough a little more, and let the bulk rise at a little higher temp, closer to 65F, to get a little more rise.
Michael

Online TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16280
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO
« Reply #78 on: August 22, 2012, 10:38:52 AM »
ineffective c-hook shinanigans. 

I have to deal with the c-hook too. When it's working properly for me, the dough almost makes a heart shape with one lobe on each side of the shaft of the c-hook. As the dough works, the lobes get higher and higher until the fall into the middle and another lobe works up in its place. When it's not working, the whole mass rides on the c-hook. When this happens, I stop the mixer, pull it all off the c-hook, and then restart it at speed 2 or 3. Once I see it working right (takes 3-5 seconds) I throttle it back to 1. This almost always works for me. In my experience, if you let the dough rest in the mixer after the initial mixing, you will never be able to get the c-hook kneading action to be right. The relaxed gluten just wrapps itself around the c-hook. Keep it stiff.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline pizza dr

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 389
  • Location: Las Cruces New Mexico
Re: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO
« Reply #79 on: August 22, 2012, 12:01:48 PM »
Hey guys

I noticed something this last weekend that I have never seen before in the mixer.  I have a spiral hook but the dough forms these lobes similar to what you are describing.  I was at about 4 minutes into the mixing at lowest speed and everything was going along swimmingly.  Then I turned my back for a second and the dough all of a sudden turned into an amorphous mass at the bottom of the bowl.  I stopped the mixer and scraped it off the side of the bowl but it never would stiffen up.  I ended up just taking it out and doing some stretch and folds but it never had much structure.  It was a new batch of Caputo 00 at my usual 60 % hydration.  Any ideas????   The only thing I could come up was an error with the hydration ( would it do this with a higher % hydration?) or a bad batch of flour?????

Scot

ps I don't want to hijack this thread but I thought it was appropriate at this point.  Please feel free to move.

Online TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16280
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO
« Reply #80 on: August 22, 2012, 12:22:31 PM »
Hey guys

I noticed something this last weekend that I have never seen before in the mixer.  I have a spiral hook but the dough forms these lobes similar to what you are describing.  I was at about 4 minutes into the mixing at lowest speed and everything was going along swimmingly.  Then I turned my back for a second and the dough all of a sudden turned into an amorphous mass at the bottom of the bowl.  I stopped the mixer and scraped it off the side of the bowl but it never would stiffen up.  I ended up just taking it out and doing some stretch and folds but it never had much structure.  It was a new batch of Caputo 00 at my usual 60 % hydration.  Any ideas????   The only thing I could come up was an error with the hydration ( would it do this with a higher % hydration?) or a bad batch of flour?????

Scot


ps I don't want to hijack this thread but I thought it was appropriate at this point.  Please feel free to move.


SD or baker's yeast?

Did you happen to weigh it to see if it was heavier than expected?
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Online TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16280
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO
« Reply #81 on: August 22, 2012, 03:54:23 PM »
I have to deal with the c-hook too. When it's working properly for me, the dough almost makes a heart shape with one lobe on each side of the shaft of the c-hook. As the dough works, the lobes get higher and higher until the fall into the middle and another lobe works up in its place. When it's not working, the whole mass rides on the c-hook. When this happens, I stop the mixer, pull it all off the c-hook, and then restart it at speed 2 or 3. Once I see it working right (takes 3-5 seconds) I throttle it back to 1. This almost always works for me. In my experience, if you let the dough rest in the mixer after the initial mixing, you will never be able to get the c-hook kneading action to be right. The relaxed gluten just wrapps itself around the c-hook. Keep it stiff.

CL

Here is what it generally looks like when it's working.

"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Michael130207

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 138
  • Location: Maryland
Re: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO
« Reply #82 on: August 22, 2012, 05:00:53 PM »
Thanks Craig that's helpful as I usually give the dough a little rest in the mixer before mixing. I have noticed the size of the batch also makes a big difference in the mixing action. What is the weight of flour in the batch you have pictured?
Michael

Online TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16280
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO
« Reply #83 on: August 22, 2012, 05:18:51 PM »
I have noticed the size of the batch also makes a big difference in the mixing action. What is the weight of flour in the batch you have pictured?

Yes, for sure. I get my best results with between 1000g and 1350g of flour (about the max my mixer can handle). Much under 800 or so, it gets pretty hard. Of course, hydration level can make a big difference too. That batch is probably 1235g flour and 2060g dough which is (8) 250g pies with 3% to play with.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage


Offline pizza dr

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 389
  • Location: Las Cruces New Mexico
Re: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO
« Reply #84 on: August 23, 2012, 10:16:44 AM »
Craig

I didn't weigh the whole batch but I did end up getting the usual 6 balls from it ( I used a 1000 grams of flour)

The yeast was a ADY. 

Online TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16280
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO
« Reply #85 on: August 23, 2012, 10:41:13 AM »
If you weighed your dough balls and there wasn't extra dough, I don't see how it could have been a measurement error. Maybe the flour was wet to start with. It would not be the first time we heard of that with Caputo.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Michael130207

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 138
  • Location: Maryland
Re: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO
« Reply #86 on: August 29, 2012, 08:42:23 PM »
I got as comfortable as I could with the design and couldn't take looking at the ugly mess anymore. Also wanted better insulation and weatherproofing. Put up forms and encased the oven in perlcrete yesterday. Hope it holds together, every time I make perlcrete, a part of me has a hard time believing it is going to form a solid mass. Can't wait to take off the forms and start drying it but I think I will wait a week or so.
Michael

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12515
  • Location: Durham,NC
  • Easy peazzy
Re: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO
« Reply #87 on: August 29, 2012, 10:00:27 PM »
Oh man...now we won't be able to recognize it Michael  :(
 ;D Looks like you did a good job(as usual), you've done her proud...as well you should. Good luck with the finishing touches.
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12515
  • Location: Durham,NC
  • Easy peazzy
Re: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO
« Reply #88 on: August 29, 2012, 10:44:40 PM »
btw...do you work at a lumber yard.... ;D
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Online TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16280
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO
« Reply #89 on: August 29, 2012, 11:09:08 PM »
The ingenuity I see here regularly is semi-mind-blowing.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

scott123

  • Guest
Re: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO
« Reply #90 on: August 30, 2012, 12:04:01 AM »
Looking good, Michael.  Is that copper flashing in the front?  What are you using to weatherproof it?

Offline Michael130207

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 138
  • Location: Maryland
Re: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO
« Reply #91 on: August 30, 2012, 09:16:21 AM »
Thanks guys you're very generous with your comments.

I didn't like the look of the steel angle iron on the front of the "arch". I trimmed a half inch off of the bricks with a diamond saw to account for the thickness of the angle iron. I then got 10 copper samples that were 4inch by 4inch of various thicknesses and put two bends in each to fit under the brick up the angle iron and over the front. I then shingled them from the center out. It's a little rustic, but beats looking at rust. Not sure how the perlcrete will behave butted up against the flashing. Always wanted some copper details on my house, guess this will have to do.

I plan on covering the entire thing in bonding cement tinted light brown. I also plan on keeping it covered when not in use. Durability will be the thing to watch for the whole project. I worry mostly about movement in the wooden base and footings, followed by corrosion in the angle iron. However, because the acual oven has no mortar I figure I can always jack up and correct the foundation and can always patch the shell. I would be surprised if the angle iron doesn't last many years but I have no data to support that exept for the limited field testing I did on the 1/8th inch iron in the previous incarnation. All told I probably have about $1000 into it and 40-60 hours.  At least I've gotten to bake about 50 pies in it. Can't wait to finish it up entirely and really focus on baking.
Michael


Offline slybarman

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1060
  • Location: Maryland
Re: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO
« Reply #92 on: August 30, 2012, 09:54:27 AM »
Michael:

Greetings fellow Annipolitan. I'm not sure why I had not noticed this thread earlier. REALLY impressive oven and pies. Especially the pies. They really do look about perfect. Keep up the good work.

Offline Michael130207

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 138
  • Location: Maryland
Re: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO
« Reply #93 on: August 30, 2012, 02:39:06 PM »
Michael:

Greetings fellow Annipolitan.

Thanks, I really like that word but rarely hear it used. I think we should come up with a pizza style for it or at a minimum a topping combination!
Michael

Offline slybarman

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1060
  • Location: Maryland
Re: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO
« Reply #94 on: August 30, 2012, 03:31:43 PM »
Crabcake pizza?

Offline Michael130207

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 138
  • Location: Maryland
Re: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO
« Reply #95 on: September 04, 2012, 07:08:28 PM »
Forms are off! Everything appears to have held together :). Mix was 5:1.  My faith in the magic of cement is intact. Won't be winning any modern sculpture contests but I'm pretty pleased. A few touchups with some more perlcrete to smooth a few things out and then a good drying and onto stucco. Maybe a few pizzas in between.
Michael

scott123

  • Guest
Re: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO
« Reply #96 on: September 05, 2012, 01:55:34 AM »
If it can make the pizzas that I'm expecting it to make, it's a work of art.

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12515
  • Location: Durham,NC
  • Easy peazzy
Re: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO
« Reply #97 on: September 05, 2012, 08:14:36 AM »
I like it....looks like a stone mountain.  8)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline pizzablogger

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1334
  • Location: Baltimore
Re: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO
« Reply #98 on: September 05, 2012, 11:42:26 AM »
That 'friggen stand could double as a support on a wooden rollercoaster.

Good job on the build.....excited to see the pies pulled from it. --K
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12515
  • Location: Durham,NC
  • Easy peazzy
Re: My first sourdough Nearlypolitan in my homemade WFO
« Reply #99 on: September 05, 2012, 12:18:27 PM »
That 'friggen stand could double as a support on a wooden rollercoaster.

Good job on the build.....excited to see the pies pulled from it. --K
I once asked Michael if he worked at a lumber yard.... ;D
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"