Author Topic: First Chicago Deep Dish  (Read 3003 times)

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Offline khenningsen

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First Chicago Deep Dish
« on: April 30, 2012, 01:19:08 AM »
I've been making quality thin crust for years and wanted to finally try my hand at deep dish. I spent my entire college career eating Giordano's and have been missing it for 9 years since I moved out to Los Angeles. Masa of Echo Park is able to fill that void somewhat...

After a week of reading recommendations and recipes in the forum here I went with the Giordano's recipe by Buzz. I made a few adjustments based on my own thin crust recipe. First, I always use grade A, straight from the tree, Maple syrup imported from Canada for an sugar requirements in a recipe. Second, I love olive oil so modified the 5:1 Canola:Olive oil ration to 4:2.

My initial thoughts: all-in-all it turned out nice. The crust was golden and held up nicely on the bottom (I used a well buttered 9" Fat Daddio pan). However, I thought the outer crust, while flaky seemed dry and a little hard. I also over salted my tomatoes. I used my go-to sauce recipe using crushed San Marzano tomatoes. I could have drained/strained them a little or cooked the sauce a little longer to release some of the moisture. I had little "water" on top of the pizza but not much, I've had worse.

Next time I'll up the maple syrup and go back to a 5:1 oil ratio. I recall both Giordano's and Masa having a buttery taste to the dough and I'm not sure how to get that. Any recommendations or suggestions are most welcome!


Offline khenningsen

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Re: First Chicago Deep Dish
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2012, 01:21:50 AM »
Here's some interior shots

Offline rcbaughn

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Re: First Chicago Deep Dish
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2012, 08:02:56 AM »
Great looking pie! Does the crust at Giordano's usually come that thick at the outer edge? I know that I have been making mine in a Malnati's style with a pretty thin outer layer crust and about a half inch thick bottom, maybe less. I bet it tasted great, gotta love that buttery biscuit like crunch of a deep dish dough.

P.S. - I have that exact same mug that is in the first picture, and I mean exactly! That thing got me in trouble back in my undergrad days. LOL.
More is better..... and too much is just right.

Offline Garvey

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Re: First Chicago Deep Dish
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2012, 09:38:53 AM »
Nice going!  Sounds like you've got your next several weekends cut out for yourself.  

I'm curious--why maple syrup?  And does the maple syrup make lend a mapley flavor to the dough?  And do you compensate for the additional water it adds?

What RCB said about the outer rim is spot on.  Aim for a biscuit-like crust, not an actual biscuit.  
:D :chef: :pizza:

See the (bad Photoshop) comparison below.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 03:33:02 PM by Garvey »

Offline khenningsen

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Re: First Chicago Deep Dish
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2012, 10:45:52 AM »
Does the crust at Giordano's usually come that thick at the outer edge?

P.S. - I have that exact same mug that is in the first picture, and I mean exactly! That thing got me in trouble back in my undergrad days. LOL.

If my memory serves me well, Giordano's has a thicker outer crust. I'm always wanting extra sauce to dip it in. I've attached photos of Giordano's and Masa respectively. I think in my case, the outer crust was too thick. I'm not sure if this is due to dough distribution in the pan or the result of the dough itself.

Oh, and that mug! I bought it at a garage sale in high school and now keep it chilled in the freezer. I enjoyed my pizza with a New Belgium winter ale. I'd be curious to know if anyone has tried making dough with a little beer in it.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 10:47:38 AM by khenningsen »

Offline khenningsen

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Re: First Chicago Deep Dish
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2012, 10:55:43 AM »
Nice going!  Sounds like you've got your next several weekends cut out for yourself. 

I'm curious--why maple syrup?  And does the maple syrup make lend a mapley flavor to the dough?  And do you compensate for the additional water it adds?

What RCB said about the outer rim is spot on.  Aim for a biscuit-like crust, not an actual biscuit. 
:D :chef: :pizza:


I'll certainly be trying this again next weekend.

About the maple syrup...to be honest I used it in a recipe that called for honey originally and never looked back. I tend to like the more subtle sweetness along with the smokiness of maple over honey. I haven't experienced additional water in the dough, but maybe I'm not just paying attention. I always aim to make a dough that looks like satin. This is something I picked up as a kid when my father owned a Valentino's.

Thanks for the photoshop. I agree the crust is too think in the corner making almost a triangle of crust. It should be more L shaped. I do think it needs to be a little thicker though. My memory of Giordano's is that the outer crust is 2 the bottom crust. this could be because of the "stuffed" factor. I like having a slightly thicker crust to dip in left over sauce.

I'm already looking forward to next weekend!

Offline rcbaughn

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Re: First Chicago Deep Dish
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2012, 01:59:54 PM »
Agh, those pies have a thicker crust than the Malnati's style I made for sure, and much more bready looking than I've baked as well. Now that I finally have my sauce nailed down the way I like it (cooked down for an hour from whole canned tomatoes in a butter/oregano/garlic sauce, I'm not an uncooked sauce guy for some reason) I think that I may enjoy a thicker crust since I could dip those buttery edge pieces in the sauce I have leftover in the fridge always!

But if you want a thinner edge you can mash it pretty darn thin, I know I did mine and I never expected to get any puff despite what people told me, but sure enough the edge puffed right out and made the perfect thickness. If you like a crunchy crust you may wanna look into using some semolina in your flour mixture, it made the ones I baked absolutely divine. The maple syrup idea is a very good one too, I may have to try that in my next pie. I've been using Grandma's brand molasses in my Mellow Mushroom clones and that lends a great flavor to a crust as well. I wonder if the sugars present in maple syrup lend the same leavening boost as say regular sugar does or even the simple sugars present in honey. I may research that soon.

Glad to see that your excited about baking pies though, I got started exactly like you and the past month I have been absolutely enthralled with pizza-dom. It has become a new life-long thing I'm afraid.... Which sure is a good think to get involved with! -Cory

P.S. - People have been baking with several different kinds of beers in crusts, but it does make a difference the style and hop content you use from what I can tell. Here is the thread that I skimmed over one day - http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17415.0.html   Let me know if you try some beers, I think I want to give this a go soon as well.
More is better..... and too much is just right.

Offline khenningsen

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Re: First Chicago Deep Dish
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2012, 03:49:43 PM »
I wonder if the sugars present in maple syrup lend the same leavening boost as say regular sugar does or even the simple sugars present in honey. I may research that soon.


I'm not sure about the science behind all of it but from what I can tell from the nutritional information online, maple syrup is a little over half (59) the sugar content of granulated sugar (99). Honey is about 82. With that in mind, I'd probably double the maple syrup. I'm not sure if I should add it during the proofing stage of the yeast or with the oil.

I also forgot to mention that I use a medium amber syrup.


Offline rcbaughn

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Re: First Chicago Deep Dish
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2012, 04:41:47 PM »
I always add my sugar or whatever I'm using as a sweetener to the water/yeast mixture. I don't think it makes that big of a deal though, especially with the Chicago deep dish style dough. Although mixing it with the oil may not get it fully integrated since from what I can tell the dough isn't mixed that much once you get the oil incorporated so gluten doesn't form. Kinda like still having chunks of butter/shortening in a biscuit/pie dough too, gives it those flaky layers that everyone enjoys so much.

Is that the same as B Grade maple syrup? That is the stuff that I enjoy, I think it is better than the Grade A stuff.
More is better..... and too much is just right.

Offline khenningsen

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Re: First Chicago Deep Dish
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2012, 05:54:58 PM »
[quote author=rcbaughn link=topic=18953.msg185154#msg185154 date=1335818507

Is that the same as B Grade maple syrup? That is the stuff that I enjoy, I think it is better than the Grade A stuff.
[/quote]

I do like the darker, Grade B, syrups, but use Grade A medium for a more subtle flavor. I like the smokey sweetness with out my pizza dough tasting like pancakes. Although I do really love pancakes. I guess that's another forum I'll have to join!  :)


Offline mykall

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Re: First Chicago Deep Dish
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2012, 07:05:44 PM »
Very nice pie Kh!    Really rich tomatoes and cheese.  Do you mind sharing what brand of San Marzis and cheese?

Offline khenningsen

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Re: First Chicago Deep Dish
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2012, 08:19:46 PM »
They don't seem to have a brand name...

I use these for pretty much every tomato sauce I make - pizza, pasta, lasagna, shakshouka (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakshouka). They never fail.

They need to be either strained a little or cooked down to get rid of a little bit of water. I had some water build up on top of the pizza but not much compared to other pizzas I've seen.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 08:25:51 PM by khenningsen »

Offline mykall

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Re: First Chicago Deep Dish
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2012, 10:42:09 AM »
Interesting it is that shakshouka is a staple of Tunisia and Libya.  I have lived in both countries and don't remember ever hearing of it.  Granted this was quite a while ago, but many things like Shey-hee (tea)  are never forgotten. 

Offline khenningsen

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Re: First Chicago Deep Dish
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2012, 11:33:01 AM »
It's a staple of Israel. I usually make it for breakfast whenever I have left over sauce.

I'm making my second round of deep dish today. I'm up early to make the dough and make sure I have enough time to let it rise before my friends arrive.  :)


Offline David Deas

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Re: First Chicago Deep Dish
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2012, 10:45:06 PM »
They don't seem to have a brand name...

I use these for pretty much every tomato sauce I make - pizza, pasta, lasagna, shakshouka (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakshouka). They never fail.

They need to be either strained a little or cooked down to get rid of a little bit of water. I had some water build up on top of the pizza but not much compared to other pizzas I've seen.


That *is* the brand name. 

Those are not real San Marzano tomatoes, but by naming the brand "San Marzano" they're able to catch a few unsuspecting folks.

Offline FLAVORMAN

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Re: First Chicago Deep Dish
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2012, 02:18:51 PM »
Well they got me...and for a few years..we even pay more for them..just to show you that you should really pay attention when buying ingredients..thanks for the info on the product...really disappointed, just used 3 cans for pasta sauce to freeze...

Offline khenningsen

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Re: First Chicago Deep Dish
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2012, 02:28:45 PM »
Well, I do like the flavor so I'll stick with them. Thanks for the info!


Offline CDNpielover

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Re: First Chicago Deep Dish
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2012, 04:18:59 PM »
if the tomatoes are good, who cares is they are "real" san marzano's or not?  san marzano simply refers to plum tomatoes grown in san marzano, but there is no reason that the same varieties grown elsewhere can't be as good.  Afterall, all tomatoes were imported to Europe from the new world anyway.

there is great sparkling wine made all over the place, but everyone still calls it champagne    :chef:

Offline FLAVORMAN

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Re: First Chicago Deep Dish
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2012, 05:24:25 PM »
I think we have really started something here...I have in the past when informed about San Marzona vs other brands and when tested the flavor was day and night...I did a flavor test with a few other store brought brands and agreed I thought true San Marzona had flavor and sweetness I could tell the differance and loved....yes year to year it might be differant....This is not just about Pizza but other dishes we all make....I sincerely believe the cost of the San Marzono vs Hunts is worth it.....My big problem is I have been buying the the brand we are talking about and paying 3.95 a can vs/ 1.50-2.00 for others.....I wish this was a total forum discussion and I hope it will be....come on Norma,peet-za,dkm, vcb and others...what are your thoughts...I know when you add a bunch of spices to the sauce it might not be noticable...but this to me is a big deal...

Offline khenningsen

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Re: First Chicago Deep Dish
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2012, 05:42:47 PM »
I agree that the price for these specific "san marzano" tomatoes are a bit much at 4-5 a can in Los Angeles. I always wait until they are 2 for $5 and buy a case. Well worth it in my opinion.