My first deep dish ever

[Perdalonga]

Hi guys, I am a new user and this is my first post after my introduction.
I live in Italy (Sardinia); I love pizza since I was a little child and now I own a little WBO in which I bake neapolitan style pizzas which make me proud!  
I have never been in Chicago and never tasted the typical “deep dish” Chicago style pizza, but I am very interested in its peculiar tradition and technique.
Since I don’t have idea of the real flavor of Chicago’s pies, I have to close my eyes and imagine their taste and try to approach to that idea with different ingredients and seasonings, because I cannot find the same things here in Italy.

Yesterday I made my first deep dish ever and, obviously, I made some mistakes.
I used a 14” calculated dough for a 12” pan, so the pie was thicker than I expected.
The sausage was too watery; next time I’ll try to pre-cook it a little bit to get evaporate the water in excess.
The tomatoes tasted great: I used 3 cans (400g or 14 oz each one) of ground tomatoes, drained and seasoned with salt, minced garlic and ginger, oregano, onion powder, garlic powder, black pepper, white pepper, chili powder and sweetened with honey.
However, I enjoyed the experiment!  

Here is the recipe:

Flour (100%): Water (47%): IDY (.6%): Salt (1.5%): Olive Oil (6%): Corn Oil (12%): Butter/Margarine (6%): Sugar (1.5%): Semolina (20%): Total (194.6%):

380.44 g  |  13.42 oz | 0.84 lbs 178.81 g  |  6.31 oz | 0.39 lbs 2.28 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.76 tsp | 0.25 tbsp 5.71 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.02 tsp | 0.34 tbsp 22.83 g | 0.81 oz | 0.05 lbs | 5.07 tsp | 1.69 tbsp 45.65 g | 1.61 oz | 0.1 lbs | 10.15 tsp | 3.38 tbsp 22.83 g | 0.81 oz | 0.05 lbs | 4.83 tsp | 1.61 tbsp 5.71 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.43 tsp | 0.48 tbsp 76.09 g | 2.68 oz | 0.17 lbs | 7.29 tbsp | 0.46 cups 740.35 g | 26.11 oz | 1.63 lbs | TF = 0.125

I'd like to read your comments (hoping to be able to post some photos!)  

Perdalonga

[jeffereynelson]

That looks really good! are you sure it was the sausage that was watery and not the cheese?

[Perdalonga]

That looks really good! are you sure it was the sausage that was watery and not the cheese?

Thanks for your comment!
Well, I'm not sure but I think so because the water that came up boiling in the surface of the pie tasted just like the sausage, and because the cheese was fresh provola having less water than mozzarella (and the meat in Italy is often watery, I don't know why but it happens frequently)

[Chicago Bob]

Perdalonga,

Looks pretty authentic to me...I'm not seeing too terribly much water but I don't think many people here would use a "fresh" cheese of any kind. Is that a BTB dough recipe ? Maybe he will come in here and help you with pinching that dough up a lil thinner and perhaps a spice recommendation.

Excellent first attempt and welcome to the forum!

Bob

[Perdalonga]

Perdalonga,

Looks pretty authentic to me...I'm not seeing too terribly much water but I don't think many people here would use a "fresh" cheese of any kind. Is that a BTB dough recipe ? Maybe he will come in here and help you with pinching that dough up a lil thinner and perhaps a spice recommendation.

Excellent first attempt and welcome to the forum!

Bob

Thanks Bob!

I would be happy if BTB will come here to show me the real stuff!

Yes, I read almost all the posts of the thread about Malnati deep dish with semolina and, of course, I also was inspired by some BTB’s tips for using the deep dish dough calculator.
The mistakes, obviously, are only mine!

First of all, I made confusion with my converter tools (messing with inches and cm, I admit) and I used too much dough for a 12” pan: that is why I obtained a thicker crust than I wanted (I hope the next time, with a correct amount of dough, it will be thinner).

I also kneaded too much (3 minutes estimated) trying to make the dough absorb all the fats. How can I fix that?

And let’s come to the wateriness… perhaps the photos aren't clear because most of the water fell down just after I have cutted the first three slices (we had lunch with Chicago Style Pizza before remembering to take the photos of the cooked pie!!)

The layer of “provola” cheese that I put just over the bottom crust, even being a “fresh” cheese, is less watery than mozzarella cheese. What do you mean when you say that many people in Chicago wouldn’t use a "fresh" cheese of any kind? What kind of cheese is mostly used?

And the spices…? I forgot the basil, I know… but what else is lacking in my seasoning of the tomatoes?

(I forgot to say that I put some parmigiano cheese over the tomatoes)

Thank you all in advance
Perdalonga

[jeffereynelson]

Thanks for your comment!
Well, I'm not sure but I think so because the water that came up boiling in the surface of the pie tasted just like the sausage, and because the cheese was fresh provola having less water than mozzarella (and the meat in Italy is often watery, I don't know why but it happens frequently)

I just assumed mozz and I know fresh mozz has a ton of water. However, I don't think that the water tasting like sausage is any way indicative of where the water came from. Regardless if it came out of the sauce, cheese, or sausage I bet it would still taste like sausage. Living in a different country you definitely have some different products available and not available.

[mykall]

I'd like to ask Perda how it tasted??  It sure looks good!  A true Chi-pie is much different of course than a Neo pie.  One is an experience of artisan delicacy the other an exercise in excess.  The hallmark though of a true Chi deep dish is the super sweet tomatoes that balance off the rather dull and crumbly crust while the sausage tends to blend through both.  

[Perdalonga]

I just assumed mozz and I know fresh mozz has a ton of water. However, I don't think that the water tasting like sausage is any way indicative of where the water came from. Regardless if it came out of the sauce, cheese, or sausage I bet it would still taste like sausage. Living in a different country you definitely have some different products available and not available.

You're right, but I'd like to try... even with different products and seasonings.
How do you make the sauce?
Which spices do you use?

[Perdalonga]

I'd like to ask Perda how it tasted??  It sure looks good!  A true Chi-pie is much different of course than a Neo pie.  One is an experience of artisan delicacy the other an exercise in excess.  The hallmark though of a true Chi deep dish is the super sweet tomatoes that balance off the rather dull and crumbly crust while the sausage tends to blend through both.  

Thanks mykall,
it is just what you pointed out that got me curious to experiment a style which is so far from the neapolitan one.
And yes, the pie was really tasty and satisfying...
The crust was a bit too thick... but its shortbread-like texture was like I imagined it should be, balancing the richness of the toppings.
The tomatoes where delicious, and the sweetness of the honey was perfect with the spicy flavours of the sausage and of the same sauce.
I have almost centered my aim... but I think there are a lot of things that could be made better...
The dough needs more practice... and I have to try out what are the best fats to get the best flavour.
The pork fat is commonly used in the dough of Sardinia's stuffed pies (which are called "panadas") and I like the flavour but I'm scared to use it in large quantities for making deep dish pies because of the great amount of unhealthy fats: I don't want to undermine the coronary arteries!
Then, I have to choose the best seasoning I can find in Italy.
What kind of cheese should I use?
It is better to cook the sauce or not?
(even the baking needs more practice, to avoid bad surprises)
Any advice is much appreciated!

Perdalonga

[Chicago Bob]

Well, BTB seems to be out for the moment so I guess I'll go ahead and take a stab at this....

Sauce: Most popular is probably drained San Marzano's, crushed up in your hand as you top the pizza. I know a lot of people use only salt, pepper, and oregano for their spices. After I apply the tomatoes I simply dress them with these 3 spices. Not a lot...about like if you were seasoning a slice of tomato for a sandwich.

Cheese: We use tiles,or,slices of semi-dry mozzarella...some use shredded. I have also used round slices of aged non-smoked provalone. They don't have these products in Italy? I like scarmoza too.

Dough: You've chosen a good dough in that it incorporates a lil semolina, as you said though you just need to dial in the correct weight. Just remember to pinch that dough up super thin on the sides,especially in the corner where the bottom of the pan meets it;s side/rim. This area is notorious for becoming too thick and doughy.Also, that crust should have a light flakey biscuit texture to it....not sure if that is what you meant by "shortbread-like texture"

Give it another go and tell us what you think....good luck!

Bob

[vcb]

Pizza looks great, but yes, you could use a little less dough and press thinner on the outer wall.
You can learn more about that here:
http://www.realdeepdish.com/pressing-out-deep-dish-dough/

Also, if you are concerned about the top burning, you may want to put foil over the top of your pan for the last half of your cooking time. 

Well, BTB seems to be out for the moment so I guess I'll go ahead and take a stab at this....

Sauce: Most popular is probably drained San Marzano's, crushed up in your hand as you top the pizza. I know a lot of people use only salt, pepper, and oregano for their spices. After I apply the tomatoes I simply dress them with these 3 spices. Not a lot...about like if you were seasoning a slice of tomato for a sandwich.

Let me make one suggestion on the tomato sauce that some will agree with me on:
instead of oregano, use dried or finely chopped basil in your sauce.   

[Chicago Bob]

Perdalonga,

I will make one more suggestion for you...pay very close attention to any help "vcb" gives you. 
The website he referred you to above is his and ,well, it speaks for it's self. You said you wanna do this authentically,right? 

Bob

[Perdalonga]

Well, BTB seems to be out for the moment so I guess I'll go ahead and take a stab at this....

Sauce: Most popular is probably drained San Marzano's, crushed up in your hand as you top the pizza. I know a lot of people use only salt, pepper, and oregano for their spices. After I apply the tomatoes I simply dress them with these 3 spices. Not a lot...about like if you were seasoning a slice of tomato for a sandwich.

Cheese: We use tiles,or,slices of semi-dry mozzarella...some use shredded. I have also used round slices of aged non-smoked provalone. They don't have these products in Italy? I like scarmoza too.

Dough: You've chosen a good dough in that it incorporates a lil semolina, as you said though you just need to dial in the correct weight. Just remember to pinch that dough up super thin on the sides,especially in the corner where the bottom of the pan meets it;s side/rim. This area is notorious for becoming too thick and doughy.Also, that crust should have a light flakey biscuit texture to it....not sure if that is what you meant by "shortbread-like texture"

Bob, I thank you for your clear suggestions...
In my first experiment I used an over-spiced sauce, with a lot of garlic...
Your seasoning sauce, instead, is similar to that used in many Italian pizzerias and I like that!
It is very familiar to me (in the sauce for the neapolitan pizzas I usually put only hand-crushed San Marzano's, salt and basil) and I will use it for sure.
I normally use the semi-dry mozzarella, but in my first deep dish I used a provola, which is similar to scamorza... and also I'll try to use an aged cheese like provolone.
I have to work on the dough to get the crust with light flaky biscuit texture... and on my english, because probably I missed the real meaning of shortbread!

Pizza looks great, but yes, you could use a little less dough and press thinner on the outer wall.
You can learn more about that here:
http://www.realdeepdish.com/pressing-out-deep-dish-dough/

Also, if you are concerned about the top burning, you may want to put foil over the top of your pan for the last half of your cooking time.  

Let me make one suggestion on the tomato sauce that some will agree with me on:
instead of oregano, use dried or finely chopped basil in your sauce.    

Great link, vcb!!
With less dough it will work for sure!
Also, now I know how to prevent the top burning... thanx!
I love the basil in the sauce: it is very close to the italian taste... at the end, I am becoming convinced that the American and Italian pizzas are not as different as I thought!

Perdalonga,

I will make one more suggestion for you...pay very close attention to any help "vcb" gives you.  
The website he referred you to above is his and ,well, it speaks for it's self. You said you wanna do this authentically,right?  

Bob

 
Thanks to everyone again  
I'll try again soon and let you know how it will be gone

Long live the pizza!  

Perdalonga

[Chicago Bob]

Yes indeed my friend..........Long live the Pizza !!     

Good luck with your new tips,something tells me you will soon have great success in an authentic" Chicago Deep Dish "

Bob

[Jbravo]

 Now I'm a fan of Chicago Style Pizza. Though I've never tried it  Looking at the pies you guys make makes me hungry