Author Topic: The Kettle Pizza Grill is The Answer To All Our Prayers (THIS IS NOT SPAM)  (Read 18560 times)

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Offline synaesthesia

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Re: The Kettle Pizza Grill is The Answer To All Our Prayers (THIS IS NOT SPAM)
« Reply #60 on: November 09, 2013, 07:49:23 PM »
I am going to add that synaesthesia seems to have mastered the skills required to use a kettle pizza way better than I ever did (high flame on one side, nice system to quickly turn etc.). But it does not change my opinion on the kettle grill. I can't think of what synaesthesia would do we a BS!


It depends on what you want to get out of it, and what else you want to have in your backyard. The Blackstone is designed to cook pizza, (or it adopted a design...depending on your view). The Weber kettle is an outdoor grill. It smokes meat with my smokenator (http://www.smokenator.com), it grills seafood on our fish Fridays, it cooks our large Sunday 'fry ups' of sausages, pancakes, bacon..... and it cooks pizza with the kettle pizza attachment. It is a grill principally that is adapted for other forms of cooking. My secretary's husband uses his to make curries.

It might seem simple enough to grill chicken wings, but 80% of people will burn or undercook their chicken wings on a simple grill, even if it seems a simple process. You can grill steak on it, and until we moved to Australia we never had such good beef steak (good meat, properly grilled), and when we move back to the UK in Jan 2014 we won't (horse meat masquerading as beef, and no one seems to know how to grill meat like the Aussies do).

The KP has no thermal mass but neither do most of the other mechanised imitations of a wood fired oven pizza cooking process. All KP +Weber does is it present a limited set of temporal conditions to cook a pizza and you can get it to cook to VPN standards. The manufacturer's suggested technique is at odds with what I do with it, which is to simulate a WFO in a limited timeframe.

I use a full SS steel cover (6mm 304), they have one with holes. I don't think you need holes as you lose heat into the upper chamber if you have the lid on. You need to force the heat to exit through the mouth of the KP, it is that simple. You have to wait the flame is stable on its own before placing the SS disc on. I put the lid on on top of it.

I raise the basket at the rear, and the coal level is almost flush with stone. I feed firewood from the front mouth, and manipulate it with tools like you would with a WFO. I now use a SS 8" diameter circular paddle peel and got my technique down like the pizzaioli, a couple of spins and the pizza is cooked.

I think the manufacturer now mentions this but they never did before : I use a basket of coal UNDER the stone, the wood fire is not enough to get the stone to the high enough temp, as there is too much heat loss. Sometimes I add some kindling to that. Without this you don't have enough of a stone temp to get to VPN baking standards.

See my rough iPad/wobbly stylus sketch.

With other contraptions, you have less variables and you get a more consistent product, as you might have with a device that would cook chicken wings guaranteed with little attendance.

The KP is a lot of work, but also a lot of eccentric fun. If I didn't want to faff about outdoors making fires, I'd get a Effeuno P134H and be done with it. Cooks great idiot proof pizza but not a social thing, no fire about, and a lot less 'fun'. It's a difference between hand washing you own car and driving through a mechanised car wash. When we get back home (UK) we'd have access to a proper WFO again. We're shipping the Webers back though (actually have two Webers - a coal one and a gas one - the gas one's no good for pizza but great for quick grills)




« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 08:04:07 PM by synaesthesia »


Offline scott123

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Re: The Kettle Pizza Grill is The Answer To All Our Prayers (THIS IS NOT SPAM)
« Reply #61 on: November 09, 2013, 09:01:52 PM »
I use a full SS steel cover (6mm 304), they have one with holes. I don't think you need holes as you lose heat into the upper chamber if you have the lid on. You need to force the heat to exit through the mouth of the KP, it is that simple. You have to wait the flame is stable on its own before placing the SS disc on. I put the lid on on top of it.

I don't understand why Kenji would go through all that trouble proving that holes in the cover were unnecessary (and counterproductive) and then be on board with adding holes in the final design. I get the feeling that removing the third hole was the compromise between no holes and three holes and that Al felt the side holes were necessary for safe wood insertion.

Still, I don't see this producing 65 second bakes with the holes in the cover, which, to me, is yet another black mark. And don't get me started on the "4 minute Neapolitan pizza" claims they're making  ::)

I applaud where you've taken this device, and, if I knew someone who owned one that wanted more out of it, I'd direct them to your posts, but, strictly from a perspective of someone looking to making Neapolitan pizza outdoors, the BS clearly wins, imo.

Might I also point out that one can easily get a BS + a used Weber for the same price as the KettlePizza and enjoy all the benefits of both- smoking, grilling, 'fry ups,' along with 60 second pies, with less labor and less skills than what you're bring to the table.

At least, domestically speaking.  I'm not entirely certain how BS and KP international shipping compare.

Offline synaesthesia

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Re: The Kettle Pizza Grill is The Answer To All Our Prayers (THIS IS NOT SPAM)
« Reply #62 on: November 09, 2013, 09:28:26 PM »
My wife would love to have a Blackstone. I don't know if you can get one outside of the US. We have coffee after the pizza, ILLY coffee only.

We have two coffee machines both spewing out ILLY coffee. One is a Francis Francis X7 which uses ILLY coffee pods only. It makes perfect espresso EVERY TIME, perfect creme, idiot proof - my wife's style of cooking - no hassles.

We also have a Pavoni lever arm one, which I have had ..oh since the 80s.....you CAN get a perfect espresso with the nice crema on the top but you have to have the technique down, pulling the lever at the right speed, having the right pressure built up, filling the coffee to the right amount, hand tamping it with the correct pressure, using the right grind of coffee   ... that is still the machine I prefer.

Offline italdream

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Re: The Kettle Pizza Grill is The Answer To All Our Prayers (THIS IS NOT SPAM)
« Reply #63 on: November 10, 2013, 07:08:22 AM »
synaesthesia, I don't disagree with most of what you said. But when it comes to pizza, a BS is so much easier, so much more functional, so much more capable of producing consistent results, that it falls in a different league vis a vis a KPG. I do not own a WFO, but had the pleasure to play with one on multiple occasions, and I go as far as saying that the efforts required to operate a KPG are way greater than those required to operate a WFO. Something that needs so much tweaking during its operation, would detract from the main purpose (at least mine), which is to concentrate on perfecting the pizza outcome without having to constantly re-balance the heat or play with the oven. Further, the BS may be less versatile but still capable of cooking seafood, meat etc. Of course it is not a grill. Someone would need a grill too for burgers and grilled steak.

With the foregoing in mind, I am impressed with your set up and operating skills and being the pizza nut that I am, I am going to hold on my Kettle and see if I can get something better out of it. What I am most attracted to is having a wood fire instead of propane fire. I believe that the wood has a slight effect on the flavor in a NP scenario.

What is your technique to replenish the coals and to keep the temperature in a NP range?

Offline italdream

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Re: The Kettle Pizza Grill is The Answer To All Our Prayers (THIS IS NOT SPAM)
« Reply #64 on: November 10, 2013, 07:34:43 AM »
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25127.msg270432.html#msg270432

your pies look so convincing.. im drooling over here!

Thanks oceans. I am not very good at taking pictures and use a cell phone but the BS gave me even better pies than those.

« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 07:51:22 AM by italdream »

Offline synaesthesia

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Re: The Kettle Pizza Grill is The Answer To All Our Prayers (THIS IS NOT SPAM)
« Reply #65 on: November 10, 2013, 07:35:00 AM »
Ease and convenience are not in my modus operandi. ;D

I get the fire up to temperature, and I make sure the temperature is in the pizza cooking range via the stock thermometer. I use an infrared one  to test the stone temp, if it is too hot a bit of water will take it down a bit. Then I slot in one and cook it, replenish a couple of splints/kindling pieces, make the next one, and bake it, upon extraction, toss in a couple more splints, ...... there is usually time to go to the kitchen and make one pizza from a dough ball to a fully loaded one ready to cook, and hence the splints .... It might be nice if I trusted my wife's pizzaiola technique to have a two person thing going, me tending fire and baking and she making the pizza in the kitchen...but I don't... >:D Hence a one person job.

It is the price to pay for using this. A WFO is more stable as there is little if any heat loss. I did think at one time of wrapping it with insulting heat blankets etc... but it is probably not worth it. Hope it goes well for you. A Blackstone has none of this faffing about...but you know for me pizza starts with making the dough with Caputo 6 - 8 hours earlier, making the dough balls, and getting the ingredients prepared, making the sauce, ....the fire and the KP is just part of it. I have messed with making the cheese too....

I know you can buy the dough in the US, buy the sauce, assemble the toppings and toss it onto a spinning stone in a Blackstone? Not enough fun for me there...that said I don't press my own olive oil or cure my own meat, nor do I rear my own black pigs...you got to choose where you draw the line for yourself. :-D

Offline italdream

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Re: The Kettle Pizza Grill is The Answer To All Our Prayers (THIS IS NOT SPAM)
« Reply #66 on: November 10, 2013, 08:04:38 AM »
It might be nice if I trusted my wife's pizzaiola technique to have a two person thing going, me tending fire and baking and she making the pizza in the kitchen...but I don't... >:D Hence a one person job.

Funny how many of us suffer from the same problem.  ;D


I know you can buy the dough in the US, buy the sauce, assemble the toppings and toss it onto a spinning stone in a Blackstone? Not enough fun for me there...that said I don't press my own olive oil or cure my own meat, nor do I rear my own black pigs...you got to choose where you draw the line for yourself. :-D

That's true.  :D You can pretty much buy everything here. Yet I suspect that buying pre-made dough does not satisfy most of the U.S. forum members here and may be borderline blasfemy to some.    >:D :angel: >:(

Black pigs,  ;D ;D, that's the way to go. Noticing the Illy machine and all that, might I ask: are you from Italy?

Offline synaesthesia

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Re: The Kettle Pizza Grill is The Answer To All Our Prayers (THIS IS NOT SPAM)
« Reply #67 on: November 10, 2013, 08:27:08 AM »
No I am am an Italophile.  8)

The black pigs...one of the best pizza recipes I have ever stolen was from a pizzeria in  Málaga, Spain
- Iberian Jamon and Manchego cheese, Spanish Manchego that is, Mexican Manchego is not the same. Spanish Manchego is made from sheep's milk, Mexican 'Manchego' is made from Cow's milk.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 08:29:14 AM by synaesthesia »

Offline Oceans05

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Re: The Kettle Pizza Grill is The Answer To All Our Prayers (THIS IS NOT SPAM)
« Reply #68 on: November 11, 2013, 09:10:43 AM »
Thanks oceans. I am not very good at taking pictures and use a cell phone but the BS gave me even better pies than those.

Wow!! those look amazing!!  :drool: :drool:

synaesthesia,

Thank you for your tips and hints. You sound a lot like me, you'd rather try to make your own things and enjoy the tinkering process to do it. I hope your tips can become of use to other Kettle pizza users out there. I am sure if the KP attachments were reasonably priced, then I would probably go for it and develop a system like you.

Heck, if I were in Aus, I would stay there! I have never been to England, I am sure it is beautiful and I would love to travel around the country sometime, but Aus is so much more my lifestyle!

Offline adm

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Re: The Kettle Pizza Grill is The Answer To All Our Prayers (THIS IS NOT SPAM)
« Reply #69 on: November 11, 2013, 03:56:48 PM »
until we moved to Australia we never had such good beef steak (good meat, properly grilled), and when we move back to the UK in Jan 2014 we won't (horse meat masquerading as beef, and no one seems to know how to grill meat like the Aussies do.

Dude, I am going to have to take issue with that statement - living in the UK as I do.

I agree that much "supermarket" beef steak is far less than optimal. In my 30 or so years experience of butchering and cooking meat, I truly find UK meat to be some, if not the best in the world. Assuming of course that you buy good quality rather than generic. I have travelled extensively over those 30 years and eaten in some of the "best" (from high to low end) steak places and the best steaks I ever eat are cooked at my house by me.

In particular, I much prefer cold climate meat to that from warm climates. Better, tighter texture and more depth of taste. I find this to be the same with seafood as well. My personal opinion only of course. The UK and EU are also pretty prescriptive in the addition of growth hormones to meat, which I find also makes a difference to taste and texture.

I have found that most mass market outlets in the US, UK and Australia (and pretty much everywhere else I have been for that matter) tend to promote and sell very underaged meat. Noted for it's bright red or pink colour. To my mind (and again only my opinion) the best steaks will be so well aged that they are a very deep brown, mahogany or almost black colour. These are the ones you need to visit a good butcher to buy and to ask for specifically as most people won't buy them and the butcher is saving them for his dinner anyway. This is where the flavour lives!

As for cooking meat....grilling in particular. This is a very easy skill to learn given a little bit of practice. Admittedly, most UK residents have no clue other than throwing something on the barbie until it's cremated. Most UK steak restaurants are no better. The real art of Q and grilling is still nascent here in the UK and Europe, but there are pockets of excellence and they are growing exponentially. I guess the weather might have something to do with it. However, even indoors a most excellent steak can be had with some good solid cast iron cookware and enough controllable heat.

Anyway...the whole "horse meat" thing only ever applied to mass produced frozen cheap %$# meals and never to meat bought from decent butchers. Just make sure you visit a good butcher, of which almost every town or village has one and you will have a world of choice. Of course, a nice bit of quality horse is really rather good anyway. I doubt the same can be said for a Findus frozen horse meat lasagne. But then I imagine the same applies to any frozen lasagne costing under £1. At that cost level, the horse probably tastes better than the beef anyway. You gets what you pays for! Personally, I think UK butchers are probably the best on the planet. Many countries don't even have easily accessible high street butchers any more. Support them as they are craftsmen on their own right.


Sorry for the ramble. I think what I am trying to say is that you have absolutely nothing to worry about in moving back to the UK. Just find a good local butcher, get to know them and make sure you know how to cook steaks properly. I predict you will easily surpass anything you get in the US or Australia.

It will almost certainly cost more though. Good beef isn't cheap here! And a well cooked, high quality horse fillet is to die for, but not to everybody's tastes.





Offline simonski

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Re: The Kettle Pizza Grill is The Answer To All Our Prayers (THIS IS NOT SPAM)
« Reply #70 on: November 12, 2013, 07:23:06 AM »
Been meaning to post here for ages as I've been playing around with the kettle pizza attachment since summer. Firstly I'm in the UK so I don't have access to a Blackstone, and I don't have a load of room, so something like this that can be plonked on top of existing equipment seemed ideal.

It took a few attemps to get right - I think at first I was afraid of using too much coal/wood, but once the temperatures were getting high I immediately realised the ceiling needed to be lowered. For a couple of months I used heavy duty foil wrapped around a top grill, which was fine until it inevitably melted. Not ideal half way through your planned pizzas, so the other week I bought a sheet of steel (600m by 600m), with the intention of cutting it to size. Realising it was a bit too thick (I'd say 3mm) I just sat it on top of the attachment, weighed down with a couple of bricks (Weber lid on top to look nice/provide insulation).

Some pretty good results I thought - stone temp around 700-750, ceiling around 850 (not quite as high as the foil if I remember correctly, I may have to try to polish it up).

My set up is pretty much the same as the diagram above, except I half a small log underneath the stone instead of coals. Attached pic is of the first from the batch - temperatures weren't quite high enough yet, but it cooked in about 2 minutes (48hr rise sourdough).

In short, it's not perfect, but I love it!

Offline bbqchuck

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Re: The Kettle Pizza Grill is The Answer To All Our Prayers (THIS IS NOT SPAM)
« Reply #71 on: November 14, 2013, 06:43:02 PM »
..., I may have to try to polish it up).
...


It depends on what you are trying to achieve as to whether polishing will help or detract.  I believe a flat black surface will have a higher emissivity which will both absorb IR heat more quickly and radiate IR retained heat better.  A polished surface will reflect IR better.

Online TXCraig1

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Re: The Kettle Pizza Grill is The Answer To All Our Prayers (THIS IS NOT SPAM)
« Reply #72 on: November 15, 2013, 11:35:46 AM »
A thin piece of metal is not a particularly efficient radiator - high emissivity or otherwise. IR radiated is a fourth order function of temperature, so even a small decrease in temperature can result in a large decrease in IR energy radiated.

Putting a piece of aluminum foil on the door of my oven and setting it back 4-5" from the mouth when pre-heating makes a HUGE difference as compared to the same with just the flat-back door.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline simonski

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Re: The Kettle Pizza Grill is The Answer To All Our Prayers (THIS IS NOT SPAM)
« Reply #73 on: December 05, 2013, 05:14:12 AM »
Round two - experimented with lining the front of the insert with foil (I'm not entirely sure why). Got a ceiling temperature of around 900 and stone temperatures between 750-820 (a bit too hot perhaps, until I start using a doming technique).

Pleased with the results (48 hour rise sourdough, 62% hydration)

On a side note, any suggestions for reducing the wateryness of my sauce? I got hold of some tinned san marzanos, and while lovely and sweet (really very tasty), they're all a bit broken up in the tin, meaning the water inside the tomatoes (that I can usually discard) has leaked into the surrounding sauce.

Offline AH

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 ^^^I will be trying your method tomorrow ... I have high hopes. I'll let you know soon!

Offline AH

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Perfect Pizza thanks to you!

I'm the owner of the 'small' Weber One Touch Original (47 cm) and I (in my humble opinion) master most of the BBQ technique's quite well.
On the internet I saw  and read everything about  the  Kettle Pizza Grill. This tickled my imagination. Wood fired oven results,  what more could one wish for?  I never had any problems getting crispy pizza bottoms, getting nice brown pizza tops was always the problem. I was disappointed by the fact that so many users complained about not being able to achieve the proper high temperature for a perfect pizza top.
So I folowed your 'instructions' and got temperatures well above 900 F. My stone became so hot that my the bottom of my first pizza burned deep, I mean deep black. The top however was perfect! Couldn't be better! All this in less than 90 seconds! As you  might ques, my second pizza reached perfection in the highest  grade. This after  I learned  how not to overheat the pizza stone.  Instead of using aluminum foil as you did I made myself a stainless steel lid.

From Holland with (pizza) love,

A.H.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 04:07:55 AM by AH »


 

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