Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One

[Lydia]

Peter the blistering has been consistent in all RT's: past and present, great crust or less so.

It also exsists on both the pan pizza and the thin crust.

What has me a bit perplexed is that the styles are handled differently

Pan dough is held at room temp until preped
and the thin under refrigeration

yet both styles have the surface blistering.

[DNA Dan]

Lydia,

I think this has to do with retarding the dough. By keeping it in the cooler they are trying to keep the thin crust dense with a "flat" feel to it. If you let the dough warm up, you're going to get some yeast activity and more puff out of the dough. I speculate they do this because there isn't much weight different between the two styles and they are tying to sell a puffed thin crust off as a pan crust pizza. Air is free and comes cheap.

[Lydia]

 

I guess I should have clarified my point.

Which was that the pan pizzas aren't held at cold temperature yet it still exhibits the blistering.

[DNA Dan]

Oh my apologies, I read your post incorrectly.   

That gives further evidence that something isn't right with the dough. I cooked it as hot as feasibly possible (550 degrees) and the crust was smooth as silk.

Maybe the issue really is the over-ferment. I will try this as my next experiment. I am not about to go changing the hydration all over the place nor try several oven temps. I mean if I can't do it in a home oven, it just isn't going to happen. Part of the reason for making this clone is to make it at home, instead of having to buy it.

[Lydia]

I found this excellent close-up pic of the pan pizza crust.

[scott r]

I had round table twice this week.  Both times at different locations the dough rounds came right out of the fridge.  What was immediately apparent is how much time was given to the rounds to puff up and recover from the sheeter.  I would guess that the pies I had were made with dough rounds at least a few hours from sheeting.

[elsegundo]

I eat RT pizza about every two weeks since one is located a block from me. No matter how you play with the ingredient list, the fact remains the dough is sheeted and then the skins are dressed cold. While some from the East Coast might prefer to bring the dough to room temp, on the left coast we find that if you sheet the dough so it is in layers and then use cold dough, you get a desired cracker crust.  The bubbling effect is one that is to our 1950s-1960s taste what pizza was meant to be.

We could be wrong. We gave the world Shakey's, Round Table, and Straw Hat.
The midwest gave us Domino's and Godfather's, the east coast gave us...Texas ...

When I make my version of RT pizza, and you know the recipe from the RT thread parts 1-3, I always put the dough in the refrigerator for about 20 minutes, take it out, turn it over so the damp part from the plate is up, and I always get those wonderful large bubbles.  If you are tired of eating sponges, Round Table style is a good place to start.

[DNA Dan]

Elsegundo,

Nice to see you back here! How are you sheeting your doughs? I have experimented with this extensively and have had only limited success. The dough keep reforming into one big sponge!

Your most recent post states that the dough should be refrigerated AFTER cutting it out of the sheet. I have never tried this. Could this be why my dough tends to reform?

I am using the latest recipe from Peter with the GM Harvest King flour.  I have tried other recipes and flours as well, none with much success in recreating the layering of the style.

[elsegundo]

My process using a variation on DKM recipe (more water), I use a Cuisinart to mix, put  in a bowl at room temp for two hours, refrigerate overnight. Take out the dough and using personal size portions of four ounces, run it through an Atlas pasta sheeter three time reducing the settings . I do a business letter fold and repeat the process. I hand stretch into a round shape, put on a dinner place and refrig for about 30 minute to relax and to rise slightly. Take the dough out and flip over on a floured board. Then I top and put in a 500 degree oven on a preheated pizza stone for about eight minutes moving the pizza once during those eight minutes. After two minutes in the oven I see large voids (bubbles). I like these both as proof of process and for texture. I am sure this process could be improved upon but after hundreds of mediocre trials, I get what I want. This  is just a variation of what Round Table does. Look for the pictures of the premix bag which gives their ingredients and procedures plus the post here by previous RT employees.

Good luck Dan

[DNA Dan]

Elsegundo,

Had RT today and I can confirm that the dough is pulled out of the cooler just before prepping the pizza. I watched a worker bring out a "stack" of large regular skins, with some type of baking paper between each skin. The whole bundle of about 20-30 skins was wrapped in plastic wrap and being transported from the back of the work area and placed in a small cooler located below the prep area. I did not see where the dough came from, either the sheeting/cutting area or a larger walk-in cooler i'd assume.

The crust today was quite light. Almost like a pie crust.

[DNA Dan]

Well... a few more trial pizzas down, I am back to post my results.

I continued with the working Harvest King recipe. I tried using 1 tsp diastastic malt in the dough, with no real noticable difference. The dough did seem a little lighter, but that could just have been my imagination!

I played around with the SAF red and SAF gold yeasts. The SAF red definitely gives a better proof than the other one. I could not discern any difference in taste. Texture seemed a bit flat using the gold label yeast. Regarding both "instant" yeasts, they don't seem to give any lift at all in this dough. My default proof scenario is 2 hrs room temp, followed by overnight in the cooler. When I tried to extend this out to play with the blistering factor, I got a very dense product. It was like a frozen pizza. No layers, No lift, just one dense sponge. I was getting better rise out of ADY in this recipe.

One final thought though in regard to blistering, I let a dough ball go for 4 hours rt proof then 4 DAYS in the cooler. I layered it, then cooled it in the fridge ala elsegundo. I got some blistering, but nothing like the pics show. I still haven't concluded if this blistering thing is ferment related or temp related or BOTH. My hunch is that November has it right in some of the other threads he posted in. I mean most Artisan breads are made using a mother dough and no yeast. This means that thing has been proofing for a very long time. This may also play into the whole "scrap" theory with this style. I had RT the other day and it wasn't that blistered. The dough tasted like it was just made, not a lot of flavor development in it. 

Oh and the cooking style. I have found that using a pan in a gas oven does not produce a very crisp crust indicative of the cracker style. I have better results using my stone on the bottom rack. This doesn't diverge from the style either, because RT used to be cooked on a rotating stone oven prior to adopting the disc/conveyor method.

In regard to the dough, why it is that some dough puffs up while cooking and some doesn't? I mean is this an actual ingredient in the dough? I have a hard time believing that this is 100% cooking style related. (Although I know many people post here why their "restaurant" dough doesn't taste like the restaurant when cooked at home.) I guess what I am asking is this: Is there any way the RT dough bag could be NOT giving us all the ingredients in the bag? The working dough just doesn't seem to have the same properties as the real deal. I have seen RT before cooking, it's a limp, flat discrace. They dock the hell out of it, then it turns into a fluffy, puffy, moist circle or gooey goodness. How the hell is that possible with the ingredients given on the label? Seems like there is baking soda or something else here.

 

[elsegundo]

I believe the cracker effect is from the sheeting that RT does. If you look in RT part 2 or 3 you will see detailed description of how Round Table rolls and then folds their dough. I think that is the part that I probably don't explain well enough. The dough is folded over and then run through again. If you fold in thirds and then fold again you have six layers.  Repeat and you have more layers.  Like croissants.


With some conveyer systems, RT first hits the dough with about 600 degrees of hot air, then down to about 500 degrees.

I spent years trying to get the recipe perfect and then realized it was in how the dough was processed that made the difference.

[DNA Dan]

Elsegundo,

I completely agree with your comments about the dough processing. I have been trying to do this with a rolling pin and I am 99% convinced that a sheeter (or something that has the same action) is a requirement for this style of pizza.

Processing aside, there is something in the commercial dough that varies quite a bit from what we have re-created. Even if I make some good layering, that's pretty much how the texture is, a highly layered product. The dough still lacks the amount of "activity" this thing generates in the store. It really puffs up all over the place.

Do you think the processing alone can account for the amount of puffiness in the dough?

[Randy]

 I followed a post by Scott to this thread and was amazed at all the work so far and the uniquenest of this pizza.  I look forward to trying the recipes by Peter and the techniques posted by Dan.

[Bryan S]

Elsegundo,

I completely agree with your comments about the dough processing. I have been trying to do this with a rolling pin and I am 99% convinced that a sheeter (or something that has the same action) is a requirement for this style of pizza.

Processing aside, there is something in the commercial dough that varies quite a bit from what we have re-created. Even if I make some good layering, that's pretty much how the texture is, a highly layered product. The dough still lacks the amount of "activity" this thing generates in the store. It really puffs up all over the place.

Do you think the processing alone can account for the amount of puffiness in the dough?

I'm thinking outside the box here. Could it have something to do with the dough going through the sheeter in one direction, verses when we do it by hand we are pulling the dough in all different directions? Some kind of Alton Brown thing were it lines everything up perfect in one direction, thus the stars and planets are aligned just right and .......................................... Just a thought.

[Lydia]

If feel that the recreation of this style has just hit another major snag.

Crisco has official changed it's original formulation and it's already on the shelves. All my testing of this new formula, in other applications, has failed to produce the same results and find it quite inferior in performance and taste.

Thought y'all might appreciate the warning.The label may not indicate it is the new formula, mine did not.
The new Crisco shows 0 trans-fat on the nutrition label vs. 1.5g of the original formula.


I can't believe that I have to trash all my crust formulas that contain shortening and start all over again! 

[Lydia]

I'm thinking outside the box here. Could it have something to do with the dough going through the sheeter in one direction, verses when we do it by hand we are pulling the dough in all different directions? Some kind of Alton Brown thing were it lines everything up perfect in one direction, thus the stars and planets are aligned just right and .......................................... Just a thought.

Bryan, you may be correct in your line of thinking. I recently changed my doughnut process to be rolled in one direction and was rewarded with a lighter texture.

I tried to incorporate the technique by increasing the hydration further on elsegundo's non-leavened cracker crust. It was difficult to get the width I desired without rolling laterally but the results were better especially with the Harvest King flour.

[DNA Dan]

I am still beating this recipe like a dead horse. I am almost convinced that you need a sheeter to make it properly. My product with a rolling pin just comes out way too dense because I am literally rolling out all the gas in the dough. It's like a hockey puck.

Soooooo. To finally put the nail in the coffin on this, I found a friend with access to a sheeter. Actually the person is a baker and also makes his own pizza. It's a bakery, so his pizza is nothing hardcore, but I will be interested in seeing his product style. I will take lots of photos and about 3 versions of the RT dough to try out on a sheeter. Won't happen for several more weeks so stay tuned.

[elsegundo]

Dan,


Roll the dough through the sheeter, do a business letter fold, and run through the sheeter a second time and you will have your dough. 

It is that simple. I use this technique every week at least twice and have great success. And I'm using a $50 Atlas pasta roller. Think what a real sheeter will do.  If pizza makers made pastry it would be less of a mystery.

Good luck. 

[DNA Dan]

I hear you Elsegundo, but I have a hard time believing that the technique is going to add the same amount of blistering/bubbling to the dough as the real deal. For this, I think there is still something missing in the recipe. I could be wrong however. My latest idea is some sort of double acting baking power which is activated by heat. Commercial dough improvers have helped me achieve greater volume from the dough, but still hard to evaluate without a consistent technique (sheeter). I have an atlas pasta roller and I have done it that way. It does layer, but it just seems like the dough doesn't "puff up" overall. This method comes very close to the real deal, probably as close as you can get without actually sheeting in a larger machine. I completely understand the principle with the sheeting now that I have made about 40 pizzas. One question that eats at me is this: How many times can you fold and sheet until the dough just starts reincorporating itself? Because really the layering is exponential, ( 3 layer fold leads to 9 layers in the next fold) and so on. So eventually the layers get thinner and thinner until they become like a ream of paper and form a single crust again. At how many layers would you say that occurs? 3 passes and 3 trifolds?

When using the pasta roller, how do you seal the sheet next to one another? Do you criss-cross or weave the strips of layered dough?