Author Topic: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One  (Read 239773 times)

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Offline daurkin

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #480 on: October 05, 2010, 02:26:46 PM »
I use to work at RT for a couple years just after high school, and did the dough process in the morning too. Here's what I remember. I've been trying to mimic their dough since I moved to CO.

::::::::::::: The dough :::::::::::::
-- The dough is made in the early morning hours using a big 3.5ft tall mixer.
-- Unfortunately I don't know what exactly went into the mixer. It all came in a big pre-mixed bag. Poured the contents in to the mixer and a certain amount of warm water. The Amount and Temperature was important but don't know it.
-- The dough is separated into 50lb portions then sealed into plastic bags and put into the cooler.
-- I don't know for sure if the dough was bagged immediately or if it was given some time to rise, but I'm guessing it was bagged immediately.I remember bagging it almost immediately, we had to mix lots of dough and make sauce in a little amount of time. No shaping, just straight from the mixer in to counter and in to a bag. It was a 50lb blob so no ball forming.
-- The cooler is cold enough that the dough doesn't rise but warm enough that vegetables in there are not damagedWe had a cooler just for dough and we would throw the new dough in and take the day before's dough out and start rolling and shaping those for the day. The cooler did allow the dough to rise, the bag would be practically a beach ball with all the gas in it. Once we rolled and cut the dough, it would be stacked and placed back in to the cooler until it's needed to stock the front of the store.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 02:29:19 PM by daurkin »


Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #481 on: October 06, 2010, 12:02:27 AM »
Daurkin,

Thank you for the added details of what others have mentioned in the thread. Did you by any chance work the dough through the sheeter?

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #482 on: November 30, 2010, 03:49:14 PM »
Well I spent the Thanksgiving week in California and of course I was on a binge to hit up my favorite food places. I went to a Round Table in south San Jose and to my surprise the entire dough prep area was in the front of the store with a big window for all to see. Unfortunately they weren't preparing any dough, so I didn't get any additional tidbits of information.

Anyway, I sat down to a hot steamy medium pepperoni. The bottom of the crust didn't have much crunch to it at all. I was surprised it was quite limp and also didn't have much flavor to it. The tenderness was about an "al dente" pasta with a minimal gummy layer, say 1/8" at most. I have been sheeting my pies 1/8" thick and they cook up to about 3/8" thick, so I think I have to sheet them a little thinner. The bottom of the crust was nice and blistered, almost "fried" in texture.

I then focused in on the toppings and sauce. I didn't taste any cumin in the sauce at all. I really only tasted the garlic, oregano, and coriander. This was surprising to me. It actually tasted much more simple than I recall. The cheese didn't have much cheddar in it at all, which gave the overall flavor less "bite" on the tongue. To me this supports the recent ratios that show less cheddar in the mix. The pepperoni was very greasy and VERY VERY salty.  ??? This was perplexing to me as my recollection of the flavor profile did not taste this salty. Perhaps more cheddar would have masked this a bit?

After consuming my fill and taking notes, I concluded that I like my current pies better! I feel I have finally surpassed what RT is currently producing. It could have been a poorly made pie, but I watched the worker meticulously make the pie. So what I am left with is this feeling that the brand is being cheapened. Dough skins being sheeted thinner, sauce with less seasoning, cheese with little to no cheddar, fatty, salty pepperoni, etc. etc. all these things would have cost more money to put in the product. I left the restaurant feeling letdown, as though an old fried had just told me they didn't want to be friends anymore. My heart was torn. Is this the end of the brand that I love so dearly? Why was the flavor profile just so "off"? Have I moved on with my own tastes to something fresher and better in quality?

With so many questions and perplexing answers, I think I need to get back in the kitchen and make some pies.

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #483 on: December 02, 2010, 08:59:24 PM »
Dan:

If you ever get up to Gridley California, they have a Round Table Pizza up there in a strip mall that also has a dough preparation room where the customers can watch them making the dough.  There are even bar stools along one side of it.

One thing I have noticed with RT, as with most chain restaurants, is that they are not necessarily completely uniform from location to location.  Franchisees can sometimes be more on the ball or lax in terms of management and supervision of the quality of food they serve.  You might want to try another RT in the near future from a completely different location just to compare.

Thanks for the updated report.

-ME
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 04:24:35 PM by Mad_Ernie »
Let them eat pizza.

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #484 on: December 05, 2010, 02:53:49 PM »
ME:

I hear ya. I have not seen this style of pizza in a franchise or chain of stores that were identical. It's very difficult to reproduce it exactly every time. Even within a single restaurant, there are variations from day to day. I'll have to try the one in Spokane next time I am out that way. I am sure it will be far different, for better or worse, than the Cali ones.

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #485 on: December 29, 2010, 09:07:56 PM »
Hey Dan, any further luck with the RT clone?

I'm trying something with the sauce right now.  I'll post and let you know how it comes out.  :chef:
Let them eat pizza.

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #486 on: January 03, 2011, 12:55:45 PM »
Hey Dan, any further luck with the RT clone?

I'm trying something with the sauce right now.  I'll post and let you know how it comes out.  :chef:

Not much new on the pizza front. Been hunkered down in negative degree weather. The wife has all her X-mas junk on my pizza prep table... >:( I did just stock up at costco on some more supplies, so should be back at it this week. I have discovered something that seems to play out in most of my cooking. In order to get puffy fried or baked dough items, thickness is a huge factor. Two examples, one from each catergory. The first was some homemade cannoli shells. For those of you who don't know this is a dough made with marsala wine, sheeted in a pasta maker, cut and formed on a ~1 inch round form. These are then slipped into hot oil and fried. I tried several different thicknesses and found the thinner the better in terms of puffiness and crunch. Second example is some french baguettes I made using a mix from abelandschafer.com. (This mix is great btw.) If I made my loaves 2-3 inches thick, they didn't rise as much and once cooked produced a heavy crumb. I did a few at ~1 inch thick and they were light and airy like a french baguette should be. How does this translate into my pizza you may ask? Well I have noticed on the last few pies I made a month or so ago that if they were thicker, it took longer for them to puff up. Also if I put too many toppings on the puffiness was reduced. I assume this could be the weight of the toppings or perhaps the TF, but a subtle difference I noticed nonetheless.


Offline fazzari

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #487 on: January 04, 2011, 11:13:24 AM »
Dan,
Good observations!!!  But remember, thickness is but one factor!!  The goal of a pizza guy is to create the "perfect" pizza..one that he can replicate over and over and over.  That is:  given the dough recipe, and shaping procedures, the dough management procedures, the heat of the oven, the amount of toppings etc.....how do you reproduce over and over the "perfect" pizza.  It is true, that each and every dough has a perfect thickness to obtain the necessary quality you want...but you can use the thermostat on your oven to compensate when your dough is less than perfect.  Since you are focused on thickness, might I suggest you worry more about weight....that is, I find, that with my dough, I get the most consistency when my 16 inch pizza weighs about 20 ounces.  Your dough may have it's own "perfect"..just experiment until you can control this variable....then all you will have to worry about is the other 102 variables...
John

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #488 on: January 04, 2011, 06:14:06 PM »
Hi John,

I clearly see your point. As I make pizza after pizza keeping all variables the same and slightly changing one variable, I feel like I am not giving the experiment it's due. That is to say, if I had tweaked the oven or hydration, etc. at the same time, that the new change in that single variable would actually be a better overall product. It's very easy to "box" yourself into a certain way of doing things when that single variable does not give the intended results. As I have done this more and more, I have been trying to focus on the "effect" of certain variables so that I can proactively master the craft and tailor each variable depending upon the situation. You truly have to master this to make a consistent product in a restaurant setting like yourself. For me it's not so much as following a recipe anymore as it is knowing what to do or add, when to do it, etc. The more I cook it's beginning to feel like being a "puppet master" who pulls on different strings (variables) to make a puppet react certain motions depending upon the situation. Thanks for the feedback.

Offline Lydia

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Re: Round Table Pizza Chapter 11 bankruptcy
« Reply #489 on: February 22, 2011, 07:25:37 PM »
Round Table Pizza, which is based in Concord, has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, according to the following press release....

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/incontracosta/detail?entry_id=82888#ixzz1EjjvEB1x

Well, no surpise.
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.


Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #490 on: February 22, 2011, 07:55:55 PM »
Let them eat pizza.

Offline addicted

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #491 on: February 24, 2011, 10:46:47 PM »
I have been making Lydia's recipe with a few added perks for quite a while. It is very good and brings back the american style pizza from the eighties when people cared. Round Table back then was a great pizza when they used the deck ovens with the laminated doughs. Unfortunately, like everything else it seems these days, they answer more to the stockholder than the customer and it shows.
Well....okay,then.

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #492 on: March 14, 2011, 11:18:45 PM »
Okay, I have been experimenting with various sauces and I think I have come as close as anything else I've tried.  What gets me about the whole thing is it is so easy, I can barely believe it.  Again, I don't think this is 100%, but it's the closest I've come to the taste of RT pizza sauce.

The recipe:
6 oz - tomato paste (I've been using Hunt's for the most part; Muir Glen will work but it gives a little brighter flavor)
8 oz - tomato sauce, unsalted (Hunt's again, nothing fancy)
8 oz - Prego traditional pasta sauce

Combine the 3 tomato sauces, then add 2 1/2 - 3 teaspoons of Penzey's pizza seasoning. 

That's it!

Why the Penzey's?  Well, I went looking back at the various recommendations for RT's sauce, mostly from Lydia, and I even looked through some Shakey's pizza sauce posts to see what might be the most likely ingredients.  Lydia seemed pretty confident on her ingredient list.  So, I had some Penzey's pizza seasoning lying around and I checked out the ingredients.  Here they are:
salt, cracked and ground Indian fennel seed, Turkish oregano leaf and powder, sugar, garlic, Tellicherry black pepper, sweet California basil, white onion, crushed red pepper and cayenne red pepper powder.

Notice some of the key features?  Fennel seed.  Red pepper and cayenne red pepper.  I know, it says Turkish oregano and not Mexican, but every time I tried Mexican oregano I found it to be too overpowering.   I think adding the Prego with its herbs and spices helps with taking some of the brightness out but adding another depth of flavor.  As Lydia has pointed out before, RT sauce is not a very bright sauce.  It's not quite tinny, but I think it leans more to the tinny side than the bright side.

You may want to play around with the amount of the spice that you use to try and simulate what you pick up from your taste buds.  I would stick with the Hunt's tomato paste if at all possible (or Heinz if you can find it; I couldn't), and I have not tried any other pasta sauce but Prego-Traditional.  I imagine any cheap tomato sauce will do.  The final result will be on thick side due to the paste and Prego sauce.  If you want to thin it, I would just add a little water, but not much.  There is no heating, simmering, etc., however I do tend to make my sauce up at least 1 day in advance and let it sit in the refrigerator before I first use it.

Let me know what you think.
Let them eat pizza.

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #493 on: March 28, 2011, 11:37:24 AM »
For those of you that are interested, I posted my entire "malty" recipe based on the RT clone here:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13389.new.html#new

Still a work in progress in terms of cooking, but I am content with the dough, sauce, and sheeting. I just need to play with the cooking parameters a bit.

Offline jph

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #494 on: April 03, 2011, 11:01:54 PM »
I finally had the chance to make Lydia's sauce recipe. It took me awhile to gather all the ingredients, and awhile longer to get off my butt and make it.
I let it sit for a few days in the fridge before I used it.  Before it cooked, the ancho taste was strong. After it cooked on the pie, it tasted more like Round Table than Round Table tastes on some nights.  I was very impressed.
Thank you so much Lydia, for taking the time to make this clone and sharing it with us.
I will be making this again, and will take pictures next time.
Now I have to work on the crust, wish I had a dough sheeter.
And thank you to all the people who post on here, I love this site.


Jeff
 
« Last Edit: April 03, 2011, 11:05:02 PM by jph »

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #495 on: February 03, 2012, 01:35:37 AM »
Found some relatively recent youtube videos showing the prep for this pizza.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53Q9jPi_E1A&amp;feature=related" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53Q9jPi_E1A&amp;feature=related</a>


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8pL0O4MQ18" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8pL0O4MQ18</a>


The second one looks like a pretty poor representation.

I wish I had a conveyor oven.



Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #496 on: February 05, 2012, 06:00:53 PM »
Found some relatively recent youtube videos showing the prep for this pizza.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53Q9jPi_E1A&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8pL0O4MQ18

The second one looks like a pretty poor representation.

I wish I had a conveyor oven.



Thanks for posting those, Dan.  I have not looked for anything related to Round Table on Youtube in at least a couple of years.  I appreciate all that you done with the beer-ingredient cracker/American pizza, too.  The pics looked great.

I generally don't like conveyor ovens.  I understand their popularity in today's fast-paced world, but there are few pizza places that use them that I like.  Even when they use them, I wonder how much better their final pizza product would be if they went to good old deck ovens.  But such is the way of the business these days.  I will be headed out to California at the end of March, and my mouth is already watering for an authentic Round Table pizza (and Shakey's  ;)).  In the meantime, my Lydia's clone has been working very well (had one last week) and I have a sauce recipe that is also the closest I've ever come to RT, so my craving is generally well met. 

I still wish I had a sheeter like you, though.   :)

-ME
Let them eat pizza.

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #497 on: February 05, 2012, 11:09:27 PM »
Yeah the sheeter was a "bite the bullet" moment, but I have to say, I don't regret dropping the cash on it. You need to just man up and get one! ;D

I have been looking closely at my oven setup as of late and I think that is where I need to take the next jump. I mentioned the conveyor because that is what RT uses, however I recall before this they had a "rotisserie" type oven which used to spin. I am just stumped on how they get that pepperoni to be singed on top without the use of a radiant heat element or something on top the pie. I recall they used to be singed in the older ovens, which did not have the top radiant heat a conveyor would throw out.

My current oven will do 550 with convection, but I just don't have anywhere near the amount of singe on my pies. My broiler absolutely sucks balls, so I can't do the "hit it with top broiler for 2-3 minutes" trick. I am seriously considering a dual element electric single box to replicate the conveyor heat, but I don't know just how much that will mirror a real conveyor oven. Any experience here?

Offline Lydia

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #498 on: February 08, 2012, 02:21:22 PM »
He there guys!

Its been a while hasn't it? My life is finally settling down.

Recently, I've been working on dough and cheese weights for the Pan Style Pizza with the "cheaters formula". I've got a convenient spreadsheet going and I'm double checking cook times and temps. with various styles of RT pans. I've acquired a collection of used vintage uncoated pans, in 2 edge styles, with various levels of seasoning built up, as well as a newer style CAD pan. So far they all finish differently.

The toughest part is that RT's aren't consistent with dough management after they are panned. So there are some textural variations.

When I'm finished up with that, I'm going to do some trials with the Walmart "Great Value" brand of flour tortilla mix. The ingredients look promising and hopefully will be more accessible to the board members.

Recently, I had a trip to my favorite RT. The sauce there still has the ancho, just not as strong, but my local RT's are definitely paprika. I finally got to watch to dough being sheeted, but I can't say that I gained much info from it.

Dan
Quote
I am seriously considering a dual element electric single box to replicate the conveyor heat, but I don't know just how much that will mirror a real conveyor oven. Any experience here?


When I had an oven with a shorter than average height, I had much better bubbling and charring, but I never used the 2 stone method.
I don't know if this will work with your oven, but may be worth a try: After fully preheating the oven and stone, a good 45 minutes or so. Turn off the oven just a minute before placing it in the oven. Then immediately after placing the pizza in the oven, turn it back on, the oven should into preheat mode and kick all the elements into high gear and singe the pepperoni.

ME
Those are my favorite RT vids. Here is another one were you can see the Z-stack

Kim vs. The Pizza Guy


You might want to set your speaker to mute if you don't want to hear the girls chatter.

I found another that's a vintage training video, but I can't locate it right now. My laptop crashed and my recovered files are all jumbled. It mostly verifies info found within this thread with 1 or 3 minor things that weren't.

Jeff
If your still around. Thanks for taking a moment to show your appreciation. I will be the first person to say it's not "perfect", something isn't quite "there". Although I've got a funny feeling that its something along the lines of hydrolyzed yeast extract, which would fall under the category of "natural flavoring", and not not affect the 11 herbs and spices claim on the label.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 01:00:55 PM by Steve »
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #499 on: February 08, 2012, 05:24:23 PM »
Lydia:

Thanks.  If you get up to the RT in Gridley, CA, they have a dough preparation booth that allows you to watch the dough prep person make the dough and pass it through the sheeter.  When I say make, I did not actually see them mix it.  They brought in the big mound of dough, cut it off in sections, and passed it through the sheeter.  I may have posted some pics from that experience a couple years ago.  We'll likely be stopping there again in late March on our next trip on our way to Chico.  If I can find the pics again, I'll repost them here.  I tend to agree with you, though, in that there is not as much to learn from watching someone just roll some dough through a machine a few times.

Remember in the old Shakey's restaurants when you could watch them make the pizzas from a window near the entrance?  That was such a kick for a kid such as I.  :D
Let them eat pizza.