Author Topic: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One (Read 185658 times)

pizzajosh · « **Reply #541 on:** June 23, 2012, 07:00:06 PM »

Thick & thin crust.

Chicago Bob · « **Reply #542 on:** June 23, 2012, 10:26:32 PM »

pizzajosh,

Sounds like you have a really great dad and you guys definitely have the right idea for your "research room"!

Thanks for the pics, please keep 'em coming. With that sheeter you have I think I would tend to agree with you about maybe concentrating on the thin crust pies. DNA Dan is the man with the type of work you are doing so I look forward to your results as you tweak this....thanks!

Bob

DNA Dan · « **Reply #543 on:** June 25, 2012, 05:43:13 PM »

Quote from: pizzajosh on June 23, 2012, 06:53:00 PM

The overlapping ingredients were close to similar amounts. Here is the red sauce. While I feel it is very good I have yet to figure out what it is missing or what it has to much of. I only have this in volume not as percentages. If anyone feels like trying it or giving me any pointers it would be appreciated. The sauce is best after a day or two of sitting.

48 oz. Tomato Paste
36 oz. Cold Water
7 tsp Paprika
2 tsp Cumin
1 Tbsp Oregano
1 1/2 Tbsp Basil
4 Tbsp Garlic Powder
1 tsp Salt
4 tsp Sugar
2 Tbsp Sage
1 tsp Rosemary
4 tsp Thyme
1 Tbsp Marjoram
1 1/4 tsp Cayenne
2 tsp Onion Powder
2 tsp White Pepper
5 tsp Fennel (I take fenell seeds and grind them with a Mortar & Pestel)

Try ground coriander. It has a peculiar citrus zest to it. Also, I would back off on the cumin by at least 50%.

Mad_Ernie · « **Reply #544 on:** June 26, 2012, 06:40:57 PM »

Nice pizza there, pizzajosh. I'm liking your style. Looks like you've hit on a good recipe and method. Keep up the good work and send more photos, please.

-ME

DNA Dan · « **Reply #545 on:** June 27, 2012, 12:36:47 AM »

Pizzajosh, took your recipe for a spin this week and wanted to share some photos. With the added yeast and reduced oil amount over the RT clone, I have to say I didn't really notice the difference. First pic is following your recipe 100%. The only difference is in technique. Second pic has a hydration ratio of 42%, all other ingredients the same. Working with All Trumps I have to say the 42% is pushing it. Dough was crumbly with unincorporated flour. I had to wait for it to generate some moisture on the bag so I could fully incorporate it. Your dough recipe was good, but seemed a bit fragile on the crunch for All Trumps at 49%. It was nice to have two extremes because I think I have dialed in the All trumps at about 45-46% for the structure I am after. This give a good supporting crust that isn't too snappy nor too delicate. It's also good to see the recipe being a bit more forgiving than it seems. What bread flour are you using?

Pies are the reference standard, pepperoni, mushroom, sausage with a pinch of crushed garlic.

pizzajosh · « **Reply #546 on:** June 28, 2012, 11:09:44 AM »

Unfortunately I don't actually know the brand of the bread flour. I get it out of the bulk section at our WinCo. I am going to try to get to our closest Cash & Carry or maybe Costco for future experiments. At lesat then I may have a better idea of what I am using.

Mad_Ernie · « **Reply #547 on:** June 29, 2012, 05:14:34 PM »

Quote from: DNA Dan on June 27, 2012, 12:36:47 AM

Pizzajosh, took your recipe for a spin this week and wanted to share some photos. With the added yeast and reduced oil amount over the RT clone, I have to say I didn't really notice the difference. First pic is following your recipe 100%. The only difference is in technique. Second pic has a hydration ratio of 42%, all other ingredients the same. Working with All Trumps I have to say the 42% is pushing it. Dough was crumbly with unincorporated flour. I had to wait for it to generate some moisture on the bag so I could fully incorporate it. Your dough recipe was good, but seemed a bit fragile on the crunch for All Trumps at 49%. It was nice to have two extremes because I think I have dialed in the All trumps at about 45-46% for the structure I am after. This give a good supporting crust that isn't too snappy nor too delicate. It's also good to see the recipe being a bit more forgiving than it seems. What bread flour are you using?

Pies are the reference standard, pepperoni, mushroom, sausage with a pinch of crushed garlic.

Dan:

I have to say from strictly a visual perspective that those pizzas look dynamite!

They really have a look of RT about them.

-ME

DNA Dan · « **Reply #548 on:** June 29, 2012, 05:24:13 PM »

Thanks ME. Now if I could just get the flavor of the crust to follow suit...Still missing that "Secret" ingredient.

As for toppings, I find most things don't make too much of a difference at the retail level. As long as it's fresh, it tastes great.

We just got back about a month ago from a trip to Modesto, CA and had the RT there. I must say I was completely disappointed. The pizza was so overcooked. Cheese was burnt on the top. The sauce was SO spicy that it actually had a "salsa" flavor to it. I don't know if this is catering to the predominant Hispanic community there or what, but it did not taste anything like the RT I remember from just a few years back. I wish I would have tried another store in a different location while I was there.

wsonner · « **Reply #549 on:** November 24, 2012, 12:32:42 PM »

Quote from: pizzajosh on June 23, 2012, 06:53:00 PM

The red sauce that I use is a combination of one that my dad worked on (when he got the spice bags that came pre - mixed with the spice list) and one I had found on reply #12 here http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=1586.0. The overlapping ingredients were close to similar amounts. Here is the red sauce. While I feel it is very good I have yet to figure out what it is missing or what it has to much of. I only have this in volume not as percentages. If anyone feels like trying it or giving me any pointers it would be appreciated. The sauce is best after a day or two of sitting.

48 oz. Tomato Paste
36 oz. Cold Water
7 tsp Paprika
2 tsp Cumin
1 Tbsp Oregano
1 1/2 Tbsp Basil
4 Tbsp Garlic Powder
1 tsp Salt
4 tsp Sugar
2 Tbsp Sage
1 tsp Rosemary
4 tsp Thyme
1 Tbsp Marjoram
1 1/4 tsp Cayenne
2 tsp Onion Powder
2 tsp White Pepper
5 tsp Fennel (I take fenell seeds and grind them with a Mortar & Pestel)

One suggestion...I believe RT uses Hungarian Paprika. I switched and it made a big difference.

Mad_Ernie · « **Reply #550 on:** December 03, 2012, 07:48:10 PM »

I recently acquired some Mondako flour from NY Bakers and tried out a Midwestern thin crust recipe that I normally use. The final product came out fine, but nothing spectacular. I posted on the recent Shakey's thread that I would try the flour out on Lydia's RT clone recipe next time, and DNA Dan asked that I do take pictures when I did it. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21474.msg225229.html#msg225229

Since I am using an RT clone recipe, I chose to post my results to this thread.

The recipe is one I have used many times, as originally provided by Lydia. It basically goes like this:

12 oz Mondako flour
4 oz Quaker Harina preparada flour tortilla mix
0.25 oz (1/2 Tbsp) instant yeast
8.40 oz water approx. 90°F (approx. 52% hydration)

Part One:
Dough Prep
The ingredients all go into a food processor. In my case, I have an 11-cup Cuisinart with a dough setting and dough blade. I turn it on to mix the dry ingredients and then slowly pour in the water from the top. After the water is in, I stir it up with a spatula and pulse it a few times to mix well. Once that is done, there are still some crumbs, but the whole thing basically gets poured into a used plastic commercial bread bag and allowed to sit for 1.5-2 hours at room temperature. Then, fold the dough lump 2-3 times and divide the big ball into thirds. Put the 3 dough balls into 3 separate plastic bread bags and place them in the refrigerator. I did all of this on a Saturday. Pics are below.

Mad_Ernie · « **Reply #551 on:** December 03, 2012, 07:59:28 PM »

Part Two:
Pizza Prep

After being refrigerated about 24 hours, I took the dough balls in their bags out of the refrigerator and placed them on the counter at about 2:30 in the afternoon on Sunday to warm up to room temperature.

After 2.5 hours, I took the dough balls out of the bags and rolled each one out using a metal rolling pin with a little over a teaspoon of flour on the pie board to keep the dough from sticking. After rolling each ball out to a thin sheet, I place them one on top of the other on a wooden peel dusted with some semolina flour. Using a pizza screen as a template, I ran a pizza cutter around the edge to make a 14 inch circular crust and to seal the 3 sheets of dough together. Then I docked the dough.

I sauced the dough to the edge, sprinkled a healthy amount of cheese (70% low-fat Mozz, 15% sharp cheddar, 15% provolone).

Toppings were laid on last and consisted of ham bits and sliced fresh mushrooms.

Mad_Ernie · « **Reply #552 on:** December 03, 2012, 08:38:28 PM »

Part Three:
Final Product

The final product came out pretty well. Unfortunately, although the taste profile was very good, the texture was not. I wanted to cook this pizza on my 2stone grill device to get the best results from a heat perspective, but I ran out of propane during the heating up procedure of the 2stone, so I think I did not let it come up to temperature nearly enough before I placed the pizza in the 2stone. As a result, I ended up with a rather underdone underside. Basically, I pulled a Shakey's.

That is to say, the pizza definitely needed some higher temps because the upskirt reminded me of my recent visit to Shakey's in Anaheim where they use a conveyor oven instead of a deck oven. The crust did puff up in some places, however, which is a visual sign that I use to tell me if I have replicated the RT pizza well or not. As a final act of desperation, I took one of the slices and placed it in my toaster oven, cranked up to high. The final result was excellent. It cooked the crust quite well so that now there was browning and a definite crispy texture to the entire crust (see final pic below). Consequently, I think this particular pizza may actually be better reheated with a toaster oven (or regular oven, no microwaves, please) rather than fresh.

Overall, the flavor profile was very good and I was generally pleased with the result. The Mondako performed admirably. It handled quite well while rolling it out. It would be nice to see what a true sheeter would do with this recipe (cue DNA Dan here).

. I am going to keep experimenting with the remainder of my 5 lb. order of Mondako flour and will probably order it again at least one more time to put it through its paces. Whether it is truly worth the difference in price compared to Better for Bread flour, I am of the mind that I need more data to make a final conclusion.

-ME

Jet_deck · « **Reply #553 on:** December 03, 2012, 10:41:21 PM »

Good show M/E. I can't wait to see it will a full tank of propane.

Mad_Ernie · « **Reply #554 on:** December 04, 2012, 10:47:54 AM »

Quote from: Jet_deck on December 03, 2012, 10:41:21 PM

Good show M/E. I can't wait to see it will a full tank of propane.

Thanks. Me, too!

Lydia · « **Reply #555 on:** December 04, 2012, 01:45:43 PM »

Quote from: DNA Dan on June 27, 2012, 12:36:47 AM

Dough was crumbly with unincorporated flour. I had to wait for it to generate some moisture on the bag so I could fully incorporate it.

Really quick comment here.

Big Dave Ostrander had a very low hydration cracker crust formula (that I cant see to find now) on his personal site, where he specified that there "should be" dry unincorporated flour that would hydrate during the bulk rise.

Lydia · « **Reply #556 on:** December 04, 2012, 01:47:30 PM »

ME

Thank you so very much for posting pics and details. It's immensely helpful.

Lydia · « **Reply #557 on:** December 04, 2012, 01:54:39 PM »

Quote from: pizzajosh on June 28, 2012, 11:09:44 AM

Unfortunately I don't actually know the brand of the bread flour. I get it out of the bulk section at our WinCo. I am going to try to get to our closest Cash & Carry or maybe Costco for future experiments. At lesat then I may have a better idea of what I am using.

My Winco carries flour from Dawn foods, Bob's Red Mill and Montana Wheat. I don't visit there often but if I do I will try to verify the bread flour.

Pete-zza · « **Reply #558 on:** December 04, 2012, 02:50:48 PM »

Quote from: Lydia on December 04, 2012, 01:45:43 PM

Really quick comment here.

Big Dave Ostrander had a very low hydration cracker crust formula (that I cant see to find now) on his personal site, where he specified that there "should be" dry unincorporated flour that would hydrate during the bulk rise.

Lydia,

Tom Lehmann discusses the same idea of having unincorporated flour in the mixer bowl for the cracker style, as he notes at Reply 11 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,15155.msg152943.html#msg152943.

Peter

DNA Dan · « **Reply #559 on:** December 04, 2012, 03:46:19 PM »

ME, nice looking pie. I'll have to try the ham bits on my next pie. I can give this a try on the sheeter but I need to get some harinda preparada. I have also been using my conveyor oven. I know a deck oven gives a slightly better performance, but it's just too much time and energy to heat the stone IMO. I can flip a switch on my conveyor and be ready to cook in 10 minutes. I know you've had bad experiences with pizzas cooked this way, but I think it's all in how closely one minds the conveyor. I have been producing some pretty crispy pies in mine. I'll post photos of the next experiment so you can see.

FWIW, the crumbly bits of flour point for Mondako is about 40% hydration. I just made a pie a few weeks ago in the other thread like this. It's interesting, because I find without a sheeter the hydration ratio really seems to matter. You have to be dry enough so the dough remains under-developed but not so dry that the dough is too stiff to roll by hand. With the sheeter, I have gotten good layering on lots of different flours ranging from 38-50% hydration.