Author Topic: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One  (Read 280148 times)

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Offline elsegundo

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2005, 03:57:51 PM »
Went to RT for lunch today.  Great pizza today. I had the first pizza from the 505 degree oven.

For Pete-zza


Large pizza slice = 42 grams. A slice is 1/12 of the total pizza.
Medium is 43.1 and a slice is 1/8 of the total pizza
Small is 40.00 1/6th of total
personal is 113.0
A large pizza has 11 ounces of cheese. The old ratio of cheese was 3:1:1
 meaning 3 mozzarella 1 cheddar 1 provalone and that was for a small I think.



Online Pete-zza

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2005, 04:18:24 PM »
elsegundo,

Can you (or Zack) describe the texture of the RT finished crust for me? I know that originally the RT post was moved from Cracker Style to American, which suggests something not quite like a cracker but more in the direction of the "softer" American style. Possibly something in between? The first RT pizza I made was chewy with a cracker-like crust at the outside edges. The second RT pizza I made was much more cracker-like. It had a bit of softness in the middle but the cracker texture increased moving out toward the outer edge.

I guessed on the cheese blend. But I would say that my ratio was pretty close to what you mentioned. I don't use a lot of cheese on my pizzas, so I tend to doubt that I used 11 ounces.

I was also wondering whether RT uses pizza screens as opposed to discs. If discs, are they just the plain aluminum ones or are they the fancier dark, coated discs?

BTW, I came across the following cracker-type recipe from Tom Lehmann. Maybe you can tell me whether that is more like a RT crust or a more crackery one:

Begin with a very basic formula as follows: High protein pizza flour 100%; Salt 1.75%; Compressed yeast 1.5%; olive oil 2%; Water 45% (+/-). Mix the dough in the normal manner. Retard the dough overnight before using it. After allowing the dough balls to warm for an hour or so, pass it through your sheeter to give a dough thickness of about three sixteenths inch. Fold the dough in half twice, so you end up with a quarter sized skin. Use plenty of dusting flour when putting the dough through the sheeter. Now, pass the dough through the sheeter again, sheeting the dough out to full size, about one eighth inch thick this time. Dock the dough, trim to desired diameter, sauce, top, and bake in a deck oven at about 475-500F. Bake the pizza directly on the deck. You will need to use some corn meal or semolina flour as a peel release when peeling the pizza into the oven. This pizza will generally take from 7 to 10 minutes to bake. Shame on you if you try to bake it faster!

Peter


Offline Lydia

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2005, 10:19:56 PM »
Pic Round Table Perforated disc
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Offline scott r

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2005, 05:25:12 AM »
I am going to have fun trying this place and knowing all the recipe and dough management details ahead of time.  I am curious about the texture of a sheeted and folded over dough.  It sounds like that might end up similar to a frozen pizza crust style that I have always wondered how to make. 

I just checked the website, How is the creamy garlic sauce ?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2005, 05:31:13 AM by scott r »

Offline elsegundo

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2005, 04:33:50 PM »
The texture, if you picked a good RT place, is going to be a cross between American and crispy. The layering produces the saltine cracker effect and the ingredients produce a little chew. If a croissant were fried, you would get close.  Round Table is part of the original three (California style prior to Puck and CPK): Shakey's RT, and Straw Hat. The idea was to have a fun snack rather than an Italian meal. Of course if you eat three pieces you have a meal.  Boboli might be close also.

Offline scott r

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2006, 11:45:40 PM »
I got to try the round table pizza and I thought it was exceptional for a chain.  The dough was very tender and I was not expecting that after all the sheeting.  The cheese seemed to be high quality as well.  Everything seemed very fresh and the pizzeria was very clean. I loved all the topping and sauce choices as well as the great selection of specialty pies.  You have to love a place that even has a special sauce for Hawaiian pizza!

Offline GW

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2006, 03:04:39 PM »
OK, this is an old thread, but I'm new here - so I'm gonna post  ;D.  I'll admit that it's been over ten years since I worked for Round Table, and procedures may have changed since then.  The procedure ThatOneGuy described is pretty much how we did it when I was rolling out dough for them with one exception.  The leftover skins were rolled together at the end of the night, the next day, after the fresh dough was sheeted out, the "re-roll" was spread out on top of the fresh.  The fresh dough was folded over  the older dough, and the whole thing was sent through the sheeeter several more times until it was the proper thickness.  This was for the thin crust, the thick crust or "pan pizza" skins were 100% fresh dough.  Where I worked, the dough was always allowed to ferment overnight.  FWIW, the RTP that AI worked at also used stone deck ovens rather than conveyers.  The pizzas took about 25-50% longer, but had a far superior flavor than the other fracnchise across town that used conveyers.

G

Offline elsegundo

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2006, 04:42:38 PM »
GW,

You are so right. Some Round Tables do re-sheet the dough. The good part is the scrap dough adds flavor. The bad part is the yeast may not be as active.
 
ThatOneGuy did us true Californians such a favor I can't thank him enough.

The decks did produce a better flavor and texture, but can you trust ever-changing workforce with remembering which pizza went in when.
The conveyor system is certainly more consistent and faster. That is important as RTP has a lot of traffic on the weekends.
The flavor isn't better. 

What gave the sauce the extra flavor? I think it was chili flakes.

The cheese was originally mozzarella, provolone and cheddar (in that order of weight). Today I'm not sure.

One question: how cold was the dough when it was sheeted, and how cold was it when the pizza was made?

from the west coast

Offline GW

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2006, 10:01:29 PM »
I have to add the caveat that the franchisee I worked for didn't always do things "the one best way".  We kept the dough for the thin crust as cold as possible. We always set out the bag of dough for the thick crust out at the beginning of the roll and let it proof at room temp until we were done with the thin.

G


Offline Ed

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2006, 10:42:39 PM »
ThatOneGuy,

As you may know, some jurisdictions do not allow pizza operators to use screens anymore for health reasons (according to pizzatools, Dallas is one of them), so many users have gone to discs (or possibly perforated cutter pans). I assume that a 14-inch screen should work, however, without the need to pre-bake the crust before saucing and dressing. I obviously don't need the dough ring, since I can use the 14-inch screen to lay out a 14-inch dough circle.

Pete-zza,

What are the health issues concerning pizza screens?  Just asking because I just ordered 3 new ones online.

Ed

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2006, 11:09:26 PM »
Ed,

As best I can tell it has to do with cleaning the screens. Tom Lehmann was asked a while back about seasoning pizza screens and he replied as follows:

Why not save yourself a lot of work and just buy pre-seasoned (black colored) pizza disks? They bake as well or better, they will certainly last longer, health departments smile when they see them, you can soak/wash them without fear of destroying the seasoning, and they will never need to be redone.

The pizzatools.com website makes it a point to mention that its Quik-Disks are approved by health departments.

I, too, have several pizza screens and use them all the time. I've never worried about any health issues. The trend industry-wide seems to me moving in the direction of using disks. They now come with a variety of sizes and hole sizes/configurations. They are much more expensive than screens, however, especially the preseasoned coted disks, like the pizzatools Quik-Disks.

Peter

Offline Steve

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2006, 12:59:47 PM »
Round Table flour bag.

Offline BigV

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2006, 10:24:23 PM »
Interesting.

They are using more powdered milk than yeast.  That explains the browning on the ones I've had.

The malted barley flour is also an interesting ingredient.

Offline BigV

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2006, 10:32:29 PM »
Replying to my own posts now  ::)

Those black screens are nice.  Problem with the old style is you can't wash them and things tend to stick to them (cheese, dough etc...).  I'm sure that the passes through the oven kill anything on them, they just look nasty.

I think the texture with the black ones is better as well.

Offline elsegundo

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2006, 11:45:10 AM »
BigV

If you put the instructions on the bag with directions on sheeting found elsewhere in one of the other Round Table parts you have your recipe. BTW, that hydrogenated oil is Crisco shortening by any other name.

Whey can be substituted for the milk and some chains do and that includes Straw Hat. Whey is cheaper and does not need refrigeration I am told.



Offline Lydia

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2006, 12:28:42 PM »
Would there be any reason that I couldn't use the non-fat milk powder I typically use in my doughs? Or is whey going to a significant difference the thin crust doughs?

Has anyone come-up with a scaled formula yet?
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Offline elsegundo

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2006, 01:28:08 PM »
Look at Pete's wonderful entries on Round Table Part Two. I personally double the recipe because I am more accurate at larger quantities.

Pete (I think it was he) has some theories on commercial versus store-bought non-fat milk but I can't recall where I read them.


Offline canadianbacon

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2006, 07:32:29 PM »
Hi zappcatt,

I tried both of your links to images, and both are giving errors saying the image doesn't exist, but your
website is up and running.  Did you remove the images ? or are the links not correct ?


I am not ThatOneGuy, but can answer some of the questions.

A couple more pix:
A couple bags of dough asking me to take them home(sadly I did not)
(http://www.zackuribe.com/Doughbag.jpg)

A BAD picture of the "pizza cutters" used to form dough from the sheeter. You can actually see some skins on discs in the holder behind them(the top one is actually a little warped).
(http://www.zackuribe.com/PizzaCutter.jpg)

Pizzamaker, Rib Smoker, HomeBrewer, there's not enough time for a real job.

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #43 on: October 25, 2006, 03:54:43 PM »
I have been further working on this recipe trying to improve the "texture". I am now looking at different flours. Based on the package label alone the flour is said to contain: "Enriched Bleached Wheat Flour, (Bleached Wheat flour, Malted Barley Flour, Niacin, Ferrous Sulfate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid.) Since RT has been around for some time, I assumed their flour was most likely coming from and older mill, so I started with the most popular, being General Mills. A quick visit to their website shows a few good candidates. Basically we need an ENRICHED, BLEACHED, WHEAT, MALTED FLOUR. http://www.gmflour.com/gmflour/flour.asp?type=WBread

A few good candidated would be:
King Kaiser
Supreme High Gluten
Gold Medal Superlative
Big Loaf
Sure Loaf
Golden Gate

All those flours except GOLDEN GATE have Ascorbic acid added as a dough conditioner, which isn't listed on the RT package. The protein level in Golden Gate is about 11%. This seems to be ideal since the RT crust isn't necessarily a chewy texture. Does anyone know where I can get my hands on this particular flour? Perhaps I am oversimplifying this, but I can say that the recipe done with KASL flour is not true to genuine RT. The crumb is totally different.

Also, how did you folks arrive at the % composition of the salt, sugar, and dry milk? Is this just an educated guess?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2006, 03:57:36 PM by DNA Dan »

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #44 on: October 25, 2006, 04:26:43 PM »
DNA Dan,

It's been quite a while since we played around with the numbers but my recollection is that we made educated guesses based on the way the dough ingredients were rank ordered in the ingredients list. When I do these kinds of reverse engineering exercises I sometimes try to peg a particular ingredient like salt, which has a narrower range than other ingredients, and then fill in the gaps above and below the salt in the ingredients pecking order. In my case, I was hampered by the fact that I have never seen (other than in photos) or eaten a RT pizza, so I had no good frame of reference for what I did. I had better luck with the Donatos dough clone but there I had a fanatical member, Wazatron, who analyzed Donatos pizzas inside and out and was able to give me a lot of feedback to be able to tweak the recipe.

Peter

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #45 on: October 26, 2006, 11:43:17 AM »
Peter,

That makes complete sense. It's a good approach too. I wish you could try some of this pizza crust because it's not like a typical dough. It's more like a biscuit, which is why I think it uses a lower protein flour, and one that is nowhere near what you might see in a NY style crust. If I put up closeup pictures would that further help? I'd send you a slice but I don't know how far you live from me  :-\

Based on the bag that was posted, all the ingredients are correct. Flour, salt, sugar, shortening, dry milk, yeast but it just doesn't produce the right type of crumb. Thats why I thought a baking flour might be a closer match. Your thoughts? I'd like to figure this out because I really think this is the key to most cracker style crusts and would please the Shakey's, Straw Hat and RT fanatics out there.

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #46 on: October 26, 2006, 01:17:30 PM »
DNA Dan

If it will help, I can reread everything on the RT pizza and dough processing. Since I last worked on this project I have had more opportunities to reverse engineer other dough formulations so I may be a bit smarter now. It would certainly help to see some close-up photos. It would also help to have a detailed description from you of the typical RT crust in terms of its thickness, texture, color, crumb, etc., to the extent that the close-up photos don't show these characteristics.

When I revisited the RT dough ingredients list this morning, and the dough formulation I posted, I saw that salt was just below water. I used 1.75% salt since that is a common amount without making the crust overly salty. From the formulation standpoint it could be increased to about 2% and not affect the saltiness of the crust all that much, and that would allow one to increase the shortening to about the same value. However, I think that there are other factors at work that may be more important than the amount of salt and shortening or any of the other ingredients for that matter. Flour selection may be one such factor as you noted but it is also possible that the biscuit quality comes from the way the dough is rolled out, including re-introducing scrap dough into the process.

Peter

Offline Lydia

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #47 on: October 26, 2006, 01:31:24 PM »
Quote
but it is also possible that the biscuit quality comes from the way the dough is rolled out, including re-introducing scrap dough into the process.

Pete
I just read a rant from a former RT empoyee about how finding a good dough roller was crucial. Unfortunately he didn't give any details.

I have just a few pics of the thick crust. They are primarily of the bottom crust. I'll post them real quick if you think it will help.
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #48 on: October 26, 2006, 01:35:44 PM »
I have just a few pics of the thick crust. They are primarily of the bottom crust. I'll post them real quick if you think it will help.

Lydia,

Thank you very much. The more information, the better. No need to rush.

Peter

Offline Lydia

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #49 on: October 26, 2006, 01:58:30 PM »
Peter the hurry is on my part, if I dont do it now, it may not get done.

I wish these pics were better, these were taken at Arco arena and the pizza was being balanced on my lap.

These slices also suffered being carried around in insulated bags, so the bottom crust is a bit more pliable than average from the trapped steam.
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.