Author Topic: lip on oven rack  (Read 1632 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Malanga

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 78
lip on oven rack
« on: May 10, 2012, 01:58:10 PM »
my oven rack has a 1/2" lip at the back, leaving a bit more than 2" of open space between the end of the rack and the back of the oven.  my oven is 18 and change from front to back, so without the space I'm looking at ~16 inches.  stupidly I did not take this into account when planning to set up my oven.  any  ideas on how to hoist up a stone to get over the lip?  I was thinking of cutting some soft brick to elevate a a stone a bit.

also, i ordered quarry tiles from home depot and they came in all cracked and crushed.  i'm scratching that idea... may go with a cordierite shelf instead, but without a ceiling (realizing i'm spending too much time and money on this thing).

« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 02:00:58 PM by Malanga »


Offline Malanga

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 78
Re: lip on oven rack
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2012, 02:40:34 PM »
the lip and the gap

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9666
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: lip on oven rack
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2012, 03:19:41 PM »
Uuuuum.....install with lip facing down and at the door instead of in the back ?
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Pizzaboyo

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 242
  • Location: Ireland
Re: lip on oven rack
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2012, 04:17:45 PM »
I had that problem so I took one rack and heavily assaulted it with a lump hammer and knocked the lip out of it  ;D
An Irishman is never drunk as long as he can hold onto one blade of grass and not fall off the face of the earth.

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9666
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: lip on oven rack
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2012, 04:49:10 PM »
Or you could always just lay in on the sidewalk upside down, put a 2x4 over the lip you want flattened an get a fat person to jump up an down on it....that'd prolly work!    ;D

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Online scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6646
Re: lip on oven rack
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2012, 05:02:24 PM »
Are these the Daltile tiles? Did you have them shipped? Were you able to get your money back?

Re; the shelf.  The insulating brick will block part of the hearth and cause it to heat unevenly.  I would run two steel bars from lip to lip and sit your stone on that.

Re;  the tiles for the ceiling... Because they aren't coming in contact with food, you don't have to be glaze phobic- small black tiles (6 x 6) facing downward should work beautifully, especially with the emissivity you get from the black surface.

Don't give up.  You have an oven that has the potential to do a truly earth shattering NY slice, and to do it in such a way that you don't put the equipment at any risk.   If the quarry tiles end up failing you on all fronts, just spend the $60 on the fibrament for the hearth. Trust me, you'll take one bite of the pizza and know it was worth the money you spent.

Offline Malanga

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 78
Re: lip on oven rack
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2012, 05:54:28 PM »
Uuuuum.....install with lip facing down and at the door instead of in the back ?

First thing I thought of.  But with the notches and the curves (front and back on rack and side of oven) it doesn't work the other way around.

Offline Malanga

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 78
Re: lip on oven rack
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2012, 06:00:42 PM »
Are these the Daltile tiles? Did you have them shipped? Were you able to get your money back?

Re; the shelf.  The insulating brick will block part of the hearth and cause it to heat unevenly.  I would run two steel bars from lip to lip and sit your stone on that.

Re;  the tiles for the ceiling... Because they aren't coming in contact with food, you don't have to be glaze phobic- small black tiles (6 x 6) facing downward should work beautifully, especially with the emissivity you get from the black surface.

Don't give up.  You have an oven that has the potential to do a truly earth shattering NY slice, and to do it in such a way that you don't put the equipment at any risk.   If the quarry tiles end up failing you on all fronts, just spend the $60 on the fibrament for the hearth. Trust me, you'll take one bite of the pizza and know it was worth the money you spent.

Yeah, I'm heading to Home Depot now to get my money back.

For the ceiling, is it ok to have that gap in the back?  Could I just cover the gap with foil?

For the hearth, I think I'm going to pick up a cordierite slab; I found a site with 18 x18 x 1 for ~40 which includes shipping. 

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9666
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: lip on oven rack
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2012, 10:35:19 PM »
I must be missing something here....your post #1 contradicts your #6 post. At post #5 Scott is talking about a ceiling that was never previously mentioned......

Have you merged another thread into this one? Go back to the beginning of this one and read it...seems sorta wacky , out of sequence ....makes me look like I wasted time or sum'in...and I sure don't ever want to get in the way of the wheels of progress!

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Malanga

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 78
Re: lip on oven rack
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2012, 11:18:33 PM »
Haha!  Yeah, I was trying to focus just on the lip issue without getting into the rest of it.  Scott knows the oven I'm aiming for, hence the reference to the ceiling and hearth.  Guess there is a big chunk missing there.  Here is the set up we were referring to:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18589.msg184585.html#msg184585

But there is no contradiction, just me not explaining things as well as I should have (was ticked off after opening my tile box). The first thing I thought of was to flip the wrack and have the lip face down and at the door, but it is impossible because of the configuration (treads) along the side of the oven wall.  It's only one way in without banging the lips out (there is a middle lip/notch as well).


« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 11:28:05 PM by Malanga »


Online scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6646
Re: lip on oven rack
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2012, 11:37:47 PM »
Andrew, don't drink the kool-aid!  ;D  Because cordierite stones (and steel) work so well for other people, it's hard not to look at them and make the assumption that they're inherently good and that they can make great pizza in any environment. They're great for some people, but they're horrible for others.  You're one of those unlucky others. For a 4 minute bake, you'll most likely have to pre-heat your cordierite to 575. Without a top heat source, that means that you're pre-heating your ceiling to 575 as well. 575 for a ceiling is nothing.  If you forgo a false ceiling and use the almost massless ceiling of the oven, you're talking about almost no top browning, and, if you pre-heat the false ceiling of tiles to 575, you're still talking about a completely unbalanced top to bottom heat ratio. The only way to get the right balance of top to bottom heat is to use a hearth material with a low heat transfer rate, a material that will give you a 4 minute pie at 650 or higher.  When you can pre-heat your false ceiling to 650 (or better yet, 700), that's when you'll start seeing proper top browning in 4 minutes- that's when the magic happens.

Because of a bottom heat source, you're extremely limited to the materials you can work with, and have to choose those with the heat transfer rates that give you the proper top to bottom balance.  If, like steel is a relative super conductor of heat, there was a material that was a super emitter (to give you intense top browning at low temps), then you could have the freedom to use a greater variety of hearth materials. Unfortunately, emission is what it is. There's no magic emission bullet.  Thermal mass in the ceiling buys you a little better emission, as does a darker colored surface, but, at the end of the day, your pizzas will only be as good as the temp you can pre-heat your ceiling to, and, when working with a cordierite hearth, that temp is too low.

You can get an 18 x 18 x 1 cordierite stone and probably get a relatively evenly browned, cheese heavily melted, 8 minute NY pie, but it won't touch your current broiler pie. The setup I'm outlining, if you can put it together, should give you something both a bit better than your broiler version and a lot easier to make. Instead of all the kneeling and the hassle, think launch, maybe turn once, 4 minutes, perfection (or close to thereabouts ;) ).

It just occurred to me that my steel bar idea works with a single stone, but won't work for tiles, especially not smaller ones.  Perhaps you could put the tiles on a cookie sheet, but you'd need to make sure to use a gauge of metal that doesn't warp.

From a biggest stone possible goal, that 2" gap in the back is kind of depressing. I hate you lip!  ;D

Don't give up on the quarry tiles.  Bring back the broken ones, get your money back and start looking for an actual tile store. They should have a greater variety of tiles than HD.  For now, size the tile hearth to the 16" dimension (grrrr). I want you to get the tile hearth and ceiling in there (foil is fine for covering the gap in the ceiling, just make sure you leave some room for air flow), fire it up and see what it can do, first without a condom probe, then with. Once we can see exactly how much top browning you can get with a 650/700ish preheated close proximity black glazed tile ceiling, then we can see about stepping up to an 18 x 18 stone (possibly fibrament).

I just talked with Chickenparm (Bill) about the 3/4" fibrament stone that he recently purchased and he's getting good 4 minute undercrust char in the 575-600 realm.  As previously discussed, a 1/2" stone will push that higher, maybe as high as 650, but I'd still like to see you with a material that will do 4 minute bakes in the 700 realm. It's a shame they don't do 1/4" fibrament, but I'm guessing it would be pretty fragile.  Worse comes to worse, you could use 1/2" fibrament with an 18" screen.  The screen will temper the transfer and allow for 700ish bakes.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 11:53:09 PM by scott123 »

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9666
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: lip on oven rack
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2012, 12:55:21 PM »
Haha!  Yeah, I was trying to focus just on the lip issue without getting into the rest of it.  Scott knows the oven I'm aiming for, hence the reference to the ceiling and hearth.  Guess there is a big chunk missing there.  Here is the set up we were referring to:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18589.msg184585.html#msg184585

But there is no contradiction, just me not explaining things as well as I should have (was ticked off after opening my tile box). The first thing I thought of was to flip the wrack and have the lip face down and at the door, but it is impossible because of the configuration (treads) along the side of the oven wall.  It's only one way in without banging the lips out (there is a middle lip/notch as well).
Yes, I understand now...your first post said that you have "a" lip on your rack, so, I went to my oven (which has only one lip on the rack) and just pulled it out and flipped it around.

Can you not source a rack that has just one lip ? Beating on it will prolly only break the smaller reinforcing rods....sorry,that was jus a joke. Good luck Malanga....scott is very good at this stuff and he will get you right.

Bob


"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"