Author Topic: Norma's epoxy dough  (Read 15307 times)

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Offline JimmyG

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Re: Norma's epoxy dough
« Reply #60 on: May 22, 2012, 08:16:48 AM »
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The soaker felt strong after 3 days.  I don’t know what hydration the oil made the dough, but it was almost like batter.  I did add KAAP, Spelt and Ultragrain flour to the final dough.

Norma,
I suspect that this dough was much looser b/c of the lower percentage of soaker added to the pizzarium dough (roughly 25% of the total dough weight) in comparison to the Sicilian (50% of the total dough weight). I just mixed up my final dough this morning and it was much tighter at 80% hydration than I have previously experienced. In fact I would go as far to say that it feels like a 68-70% hydrated dough. I am not sure why these soakers are strong, but they do appear to add a lot strength to the dough, especially when initially mixed with higher temp water.

Thank you for posting your pH findings. I am going to need to look up what enzymes are active at this pH. If I am not mistaken, ß-amylase and some of the Gluco-and Galactosidases (break down starches to other sugars) are active at 6.2 pH, but don't quote me on this.

Good luck with your bakes,

Jim
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Offline JimmyG

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Re: Norma's epoxy dough
« Reply #61 on: May 22, 2012, 08:29:51 AM »
I should probably post for my own dough that I followed, as closely as possible, the the formula previously outlined for the pizzarium style pie. The flours were KAAP (65%), white whole wheat (15%) and semolina (25%).

Jim
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Offline norma427

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Re: Norma's epoxy dough
« Reply #62 on: May 22, 2012, 09:52:00 PM »
Jim,

Interesting that you suspect my dough was much looser was because of the lower percentage of the soaker I added to the Pizzarium dough.  Your posting that your dough felt a lot less hydrated is also interesting, because that is exactly what happened to me when I used 50% soaker in the Sicilian dough at Reply 314 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18281.msg188404.html#msg188404  I don’t think anyone will know what different percents of soakers will do to dough until they are tried more.     

Thanks for posting what flours you used.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Norma's epoxy dough
« Reply #63 on: May 22, 2012, 09:57:13 PM »
I sure don’t know what I was thinking about again, but I only used a 8”x10” steel pan to bake the Pizzarium “epoxy” dough.  I guess I still had the instructions in my head that said to use a 8”x10” pan at Reply http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,19129.msg188006.html#msg188006   :angel: The dough felt nice and fermented well until today.  The dough was still a little sticky, but manageable after it was dusted with a  little bench flour.  It only took a tiny bit of a couple of tugs and then I put it over my arm to put it into the steel pan.  As soon as the dough was put into the pan, I knew there was too much dough for the 8”x10” pan.  I still proceeded and added blends of cheeses, chopped kale, Capicolla ham, and then chopped spring onions.  I didn’t even add any tomato sauce.  I then wondered if the dough would rise over the top of the pan, but proceeded to bake.  I sure have no ideas what TF there was, but the crumb sure was high.  In the end we dipped the slices in sauce and the crumb tasted very good.  My taste testers also like the taste of the crumb.  I know I fouled-up again, but will try again next week.  :-D

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Norma's epoxy dough
« Reply #64 on: May 22, 2012, 09:58:41 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Norma's epoxy dough
« Reply #65 on: May 22, 2012, 09:59:48 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Norma's epoxy dough
« Reply #66 on: May 22, 2012, 10:01:43 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Norma's epoxy dough
« Reply #67 on: May 22, 2012, 10:02:46 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Norma's epoxy dough
« Reply #68 on: May 22, 2012, 10:03:51 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Norma's epoxy dough
« Reply #69 on: May 22, 2012, 10:04:39 PM »
Norma
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Offline JimmyG

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Re: Norma's epoxy dough
« Reply #70 on: May 23, 2012, 07:58:53 AM »
Norma,

The crumb and crust look great. I think the foul up was my fault. Looking back this morning, when I calculated the new dough formula on Monday for you, I believe I used my 10x15 pan dimensions instead of your 8x10 in pan formula. Oopps,  :-[ too many numbers and dimensions in my head. Ill go back and re calculate the formulas again for both your pans. This time, hopefully they will be correct.

Jim
« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 09:03:04 AM by JimmyG »
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Offline JimmyG

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Re: Norma's epoxy dough
« Reply #71 on: May 23, 2012, 09:01:15 AM »
I decided to bake up my pizzarium dough last night to see what effect this method has on a short-term storage. As Norma noted above, this dough stretched out like a dream. Surprisingly, the dough was not very sticky given the 80% hydration. As previous describe, when the soaker is hydrated with the hot water, the flour seems to quickly suck up the water and the gluten almost instantly forms with little kneading necessary when compared with a normally hydrated dough with a water temp in the 70s or lower. At this time, I am not sure I can explain this phenomenon. 
The dough baked up in 12.5 mins at 550F. The crust browned up nicely and had a nice audible crunch to it. The crumb seemed a little tight for 80% hydration, whether this was due to the toppings or hot water is arguable at this point without more testing. I may up the hydration of the final dough to 85 or 90% next time to see if it amends the problem. Also my crust was a little too thick, which I am guessing is due to the increased bowl residual in the formula (4%). Next time I may lower this as well. Nonetheless, the flavor of the crust and crumb was extraordinary. In fact, I would go as far to say this is one of the best tasting crusts I have ever had. The crumb was moist, the crust was crunchy and the flavor had this unique sweet, nutty, graininess to it that is difficult to describe, but was in no way bready.  Needless to say, I was very pleased, despite a few technical errors.

Below are picture of the final pizza. The toppings are: cooked and grated red bliss potatoes, garlic, chili flakes, olive oil, young pecorino, and arugula; capers, mushrooms, tomato sauce, young pecorino and parsley; tomato sauce, mozz, and fresh oregano.

Jim
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Offline JimmyG

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Re: Norma's epoxy dough
« Reply #72 on: May 23, 2012, 09:02:39 AM »
More photos:
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Offline norma427

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Re: Norma's epoxy dough
« Reply #73 on: May 23, 2012, 11:57:46 AM »
Norma,

The crumb and crust look great. I think the foul up was my fault. Looking back this morning, when I calculated the new dough formula on Monday for you, I believe I used my 10x15 pan dimensions instead of your 8x10 in pan formula. Oopps,  :-[ too many numbers and dimensions in my head. Ill go back and re calculate the formulas again for both your pans. This time, hopefully they will be correct.

Jim


Jim,

Thanks for posting you thought the crumb and bottom crust looked great.  I don’t even see how that crumb had that much of a lift and didn’t taste like bread.

I think I posted this before on one of my threads, but the other steel pan I have is a 12”x17” steel pan like I posted at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16473.0.html  The formulation you posted at Reply 38 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,19129.msg187985.html#msg187985 was for a 10”x15” steel pan.  I usually use a TF of around 0.15 for a Pizzaruim dough.  I don’t know why I got so fouled-up in this experiment.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Norma's epoxy dough
« Reply #74 on: May 23, 2012, 12:06:34 PM »
Jim,

I also noticed when the soaker is hydrated with hot water the flour does suck up the hot water very fast and the gluten does seem to form fast. 

Your pie looks terrific!  ;D Great to hear the flavor of the crumb and crust were extraordinary.  Interesting to hear that you think it might have been one of the best crusts you ever made.  You sure have a reason to be pleased!  Your choice of toppings looks and sounds great too.  Wish I could have tried a slice of your pie.  :P


Norma
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Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: Norma's epoxy dough
« Reply #75 on: May 23, 2012, 01:47:07 PM »
Norma

I haven't followed this thread too closely but I was wondering if you or @Jimmyg had explored the possibility of using a pate fermentee (old dough) instead of the soakers and epoxy methods?. The pate fermentee is simply a small piece of dough which is held over from a previous batch and then mixed into a new dough. It gives a flavor boost to your dough, would be much more user friendly, and you could keep a small amount in reserve at all times to be used as needed. I think it would be a much more practical solution, much easier to deal with then some of the stuff you are doing in the present.

Offline norma427

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Re: Norma's epoxy dough
« Reply #76 on: May 23, 2012, 02:03:09 PM »
Norma

I haven't followed this thread too closely but I was wondering if you or @Jimmyg had explored the possibility of using a pate fermentee (old dough) instead of the soakers and epoxy methods?. The pate fermentee is simply a small piece of dough which is held over from a previous batch and then mixed into a new dough. It gives a flavor boost to your dough, would be much more user friendly, and you could keep a small amount in reserve at all times to be used as needed. I think it would be a much more practical solution, much easier to deal with then some of the stuff you are doing in the present.

Dave,

I haven’t explored the possibility of using a pate fermented (old dough), but have heard of it and read about it here on the forum.  You and other members might think Jim and I might be off our rockers, but when anything new is being studied, I am usually interested even if I have failures.  :-D

I believe you are right that using an old dough would be much easier, but so far I am interested in trying out Jim’s “epoxy” method to see where it takes us.

Probably some day I will experiment more with the old dough method.  I appreciate you mentioning how that method gives a boost in flavor.

Norma
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Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: Norma's epoxy dough
« Reply #77 on: May 23, 2012, 04:29:50 PM »
Dave
  You and other members might think Jim and I might be off our rockers, but when anything new is being studied, I am usually interested even if I have failures.  :-D


Norma
 
We would never think anything like that! :-D :-D :-D

Offline norma427

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Re: Norma's epoxy dough
« Reply #78 on: May 23, 2012, 04:57:20 PM »
See if I figured out the next attempt for my 12"x17" pan anywhere near close, before I subtract for the final dough.  :-D

Norma
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Offline JimmyG

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Re: Norma's epoxy dough
« Reply #79 on: May 23, 2012, 06:07:52 PM »
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See if I figured out the next attempt for my 12"x17" pan anywhere near close, before I subtract for the final dough.

You numbers are right on. :) :) :) :)
 
Thank you for the compliment too.
Jim
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