Author Topic: Forno Napoletano - made in Germany  (Read 3086 times)

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Offline Balilla-vero

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Re: Forno Napoletano - made in Germany
« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2014, 02:12:16 AM »
@ meatboy
I thank you for your visit, yesterday was awesome  :chef:

we made yesterday "Casatiello Napoletano", from the WFO it tastes much better  :drool:
My baby now has his crown... I just have to find time to tile around the oven, then the sign is mounted on the chimney.
Fatte 'na pizza c'a pummarola 'ncoppa
vedrai che il mondo poi ti sorriderà


Offline kiwipete

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Re: Forno Napoletano - made in Germany
« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2014, 06:29:03 AM »
Exactly, shuboyje, that is the weakness of the Neapolitan oven.  Here is a in-my-head calculation of the outward forces exerted by a low dome:

etc..

If Neapolitans used loose fill the efficiency would ratchet way up.

I'm not as extreme as Jeff, but not too far off either. A ceramic blanket gives you a lot of "give" so your stucco/outer wall doesn't get compromised..

Kiwipete

Online scott123

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Re: Forno Napoletano - made in Germany
« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2014, 12:44:36 PM »
Now that the dust has settled a bit, I want to thank Tom, Jeff and Matt for clarifying the outer wall/lateral force question for me. I now understand that the Neapolitans use an outer wall material that is neither purely an insulator nor is purely structural, but that provides aspects of both.

That being said, I'm puzzled as to why the Neapolitans would put so much additional labor and materials into their supposedly energy efficient/wood saving vent, and yet allow so much precious energy to be lost through the walls. If this quasi insulation is, indeed authentic, then, imo, authenticity be damned.

I know that we've gone back and forth conjecturing on the potential merits of the Neapolitan vent a few times, but this is a non starter.  Let structural elements perform their roles and insulating elements perform theirs.

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Forno Napoletano - made in Germany
« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2014, 09:40:29 PM »
It's not just a Naples thing, it's a european thing.  Look up the french installation instructions from le panyol ovens for example(not the ones given by us importers) and you will find sand bellow the oven, grog all around and no insulation anywhere.  That's why I call these type of things "european" insulators.  Grog, sand, tuff, expanded clay, etc.  They all fall in a weird place between mass and true insulators.  None of them have any place in a home oven that is infrequently fired.
-Jeff

Online scott123

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Re: Forno Napoletano - made in Germany
« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2014, 09:48:58 PM »
None of them have any place in a home oven that is infrequently fired.

Are you saying that they're okay in a commercial setting that's frequently fired? 

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Forno Napoletano - made in Germany
« Reply #45 on: March 17, 2014, 10:04:35 PM »
I think the plethora of Neapolitan say that themselves better then I ever could.  I would love to see the result of an oven built my a Neapolitan master builder but insulated with modern ceramic insulation though.
-Jeff

Offline Balilla-vero

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Re: Forno Napoletano - made in Germany
« Reply #46 on: May 27, 2014, 02:59:08 AM »
Say Hello to my little Friend  8)

from now I try to make the perfect dough...
I can't wait to complete my own Neapolitan garage  :chef:
Fatte 'na pizza c'a pummarola 'ncoppa
vedrai che il mondo poi ti sorriderà

Offline Balilla-vero

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Re: Forno Napoletano - made in Germany
« Reply #47 on: June 10, 2014, 01:03:10 AM »
Yesterday there was again Pizza Party!
I have prepared 7kg dough, 100% San Felice, 61% San Benedetto, 0,05% fresh yeast, 2,8% sea salt
the Dough fermented ca. 15 hours in the batch and other 10 hours as panetti's á 250gr

the day was very hot what surprised me yesterday I had problems temperature  ???
has anyone made the same experience? what to do?
Fatte 'na pizza c'a pummarola 'ncoppa
vedrai che il mondo poi ti sorriderà

Offline ChristianVerschaeren

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Re: Forno Napoletano - made in Germany
« Reply #48 on: June 10, 2014, 06:09:55 AM »
If you use Craig's model (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26831.0) you can take in account the temperature and adjust your times accordingly.

Offline Balilla-vero

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Re: Forno Napoletano - made in Germany
« Reply #49 on: June 10, 2014, 06:36:00 AM »
Thanks a lot christian ... the list is awesome, Craig is a phenomenon!!!

I have seen I have written a little mischief  :-\  I had the temperature problems with the oven... The dough was ok.
Fatte 'na pizza c'a pummarola 'ncoppa
vedrai che il mondo poi ti sorriderà


Offline Protoolskaiser

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Re: Forno Napoletano - made in Germany
« Reply #50 on: June 18, 2014, 02:58:19 PM »
I cut the Plates with Angle Grinder and Jigsaw, that works perfectly.
The mouth of the oven door 44 X 22 cm, I had in mind that there will be problems with the heat expansion of the steel... but it works flawlessly.
Because the centered base plate, could be the soldiers very easily put to the circular... I used a refractory mortar,
despite my inexperience he could be processed very well.
At the dome I made an error, I used potting soil for the form because it was easy and cheap to get... but it is absolutely unsuitable, since larger morsels were in the earth and it could be very bad form.
after two days I removed the sand and was overjoyed after the dome was rock hard  ;D

Hello from Lübeck,
I am planning to build a neapolitan oven like you have. One question:
Did you use refractory mortar or cement for the soldiers and dome? (feuerfesten Mörtel oder Beton)
Cheers, Detlef.


Offline meatboy

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Re: Forno Napoletano - made in Germany
« Reply #51 on: June 18, 2014, 04:39:10 PM »
Mörtel :)

good luck

Offline Protoolskaiser

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Re: Forno Napoletano - made in Germany
« Reply #52 on: June 19, 2014, 12:43:06 PM »
Mörtel :)

good luck

Hi meatboy,
even for those big spaces between the bricks in the dome?
Cheers, Detlef.

Offline meatboy

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Re: Forno Napoletano - made in Germany
« Reply #53 on: June 19, 2014, 03:53:32 PM »
yes, it's the stuff saar-tek is selling at ebay

Offline Balilla-vero

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Re: Forno Napoletano - made in Germany
« Reply #54 on: June 23, 2014, 12:41:28 AM »
Haha Meatboy  ;D

my secretary is to answer every question
Fatte 'na pizza c'a pummarola 'ncoppa
vedrai che il mondo poi ti sorriderà

Offline LaLabbo

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Re: Forno Napoletano - made in Germany
« Reply #55 on: July 08, 2014, 07:40:31 AM »
Ai Gude!

I've a question regarding your base insulation: You are using Vermiculite and Ytong (in a steel ring?) that means your floor is flexible and only compressed by the weight of the oven?

BTW: Do you know the weight of your oven?

Thanks


Offline Balilla-vero

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Re: Forno Napoletano - made in Germany
« Reply #56 on: July 11, 2014, 12:47:24 AM »
Hi Lalabbo,

yes, that's right! but on my next oven I would pour the base plate made ​​of lightweight concrete.
the calculable parts weigh about 850kg, but I can not estimate how much does the residual moisture.

You're welcomme
Fatte 'na pizza c'a pummarola 'ncoppa
vedrai che il mondo poi ti sorriderà

Offline LaLabbo

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Re: Forno Napoletano - made in Germany
« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2014, 04:15:54 AM »
You want to replace both, the Vermiculite and Ytong layer, with lightweight concrete?

How would you insulate the floor?

Cheers, Marvin

Offline Balilla-vero

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Re: Forno Napoletano - made in Germany
« Reply #58 on: July 11, 2014, 06:44:29 AM »
even the "isolation" of the dome is exclusively lightweight concrete (vermiculite/perlite-portland cement ca.5:1)
I know there are some discussions about, but the neapolitan not make it otherwise... on the contrary, they use the cheaper (but much heavier) leca balls instead of the vermiculite/pelite.
I do not want to say that it is the best solution, but it works great!
the oven is barely warm to the outside but keeps the heat inside on days.

you live not 10 minutes away, come and see for yourself.
Fatte 'na pizza c'a pummarola 'ncoppa
vedrai che il mondo poi ti sorriderà