Author Topic: The real trade secret to any great pizza dough. (Read 11348 times)

Bubba Kuhn · « **Reply #40 on:** May 27, 2012, 07:46:49 PM »

Quote from: politon on May 27, 2012, 07:13:49 PM

Hi Bubba,

Here's a link to a 2010 article in the Tuscon Weekly reminiscing about DaVinci's that I felt you might be interested in:
http://www.tucsonweekly.com/tucson/italian-style/Content?oid=2303030

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Gratzi,

--Paul

Thanks for the link. Cosmos was one of the hardest working men I have ever known.

MTPIZZA · « **Reply #41 on:** May 28, 2012, 09:55:05 AM »

Slybarman...I agree with you-- the formulation seems it would be way too dry. This formula uses over 6 cups of flour and only 2 cups of water plus the EVOO - I would think it still would be dry and hard. Bubba, in the video it looks like more than 2 cups of water are poured in.... the only items that weren't measured in front of the camera the water and flour. Peter I know you said the EVOO would make up the difference to correct for the liquid. I haven't made this recipe yet but I had a suspicion about this. When I make my doughs I'm using around 3/4 cups of water to every two cups of flour. I'm getting my scale fixed and will be able to weigh my amounts for this recipe so I'll report back... Also could altitude play a role in all of this??... wetter doughs at higher altitudes with less liquid??.... Tiz a puzzlement... comments Bubba??? THanks...

Pete-zza · « **Reply #42 on:** May 28, 2012, 10:34:25 AM »

Quote from: MTPIZZA on May 28, 2012, 09:55:05 AM

Peter I know you said the EVOO would make up the difference to correct for the liquid. I haven't made this recipe yet but I had a suspicion about this.

MTPIZZA,

Not long ago, I discussed the role of oil in a dough and its "wetting" effect on the dough in the first paragraph of Reply 1394 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg172230/topicseen.html#msg172230. However, I should also note that when a lot of oil is used, especially if it is added to the water up front, it can affect the abiity of the dough to absorb the water. That is why Tom Lehmann advocates adding the oil after the water has been absorbed by the flour. In a home setting, I found that if I used too much oil, it was better to add it to the water up front. Otherwise, the dough would have a hard time incorporating the oil without my manual intervention and would spin too much around the dough hook.

Peter

MTPIZZA · « **Reply #43 on:** May 28, 2012, 12:07:51 PM »

Thanks Peter I read the thread... true oil would add to the overall "wettness".. Bubba adds it at the beginning with no problems. I think that Slybarman stated he may not have weighed his flour. As you know this can put more flour into the formula than should be if compacted etc... weighing is the only way to go. I'm getting my scale back and I'll weigh the recipe out and give it a try. This may be the culprit - I'll report back with my findings after I try a batch using Bubbas measurments. Thanks...

slybarman · « **Reply #44 on:** May 28, 2012, 09:22:27 PM »

I weighed everything the second time around and it still seemed dry to me, but I am hoping someone else with more experience will give it a go.

Bubba Kuhn · « **Reply #45 on:** May 28, 2012, 10:29:37 PM »

Quote from: slybarman on May 28, 2012, 09:22:27 PM

I weighed everything the second time around and it still seemed dry to me, but I am hoping someone else with more experience will give it a go.

Bubba Kuhn · « **Reply #46 on:** May 28, 2012, 10:34:48 PM »

Quote from: MTPIZZA on May 28, 2012, 09:55:05 AM

Slybarman...I agree with you-- the formulation seems it would be way too dry. This formula uses over 6 cups of flour and only 2 cups of water plus the EVOO - I would think it still would be dry and hard. Bubba, in the video it looks like more than 2 cups of water are poured in.... the only items that weren't measured in front of the camera the water and flour. Peter I know you said the EVOO would make up the difference to correct for the liquid. I haven't made this recipe yet but I had a suspicion about this. When I make my doughs I'm using around 3/4 cups of water to every two cups of flour. I'm getting my scale fixed and will be able to weigh my amounts for this recipe so I'll report back... Also could altitude play a role in all of this??... wetter doughs at higher altitudes with less liquid??.... Tiz a puzzlement... comments Bubba??? THanks...

Pete-zza · « **Reply #47 on:** May 28, 2012, 10:39:43 PM »

Bubba,

Do you mean a pint, rather than a quart?

Peter

Bubba Kuhn · « **Reply #48 on:** May 28, 2012, 10:43:50 PM »

Quote from: Pete-zza on May 28, 2012, 10:39:43 PM

Bubba,

Do you mean a pint, rather than a quart?

Peter

Hang tough I am reviewing the vids for misspeak. Yes I mean 2 cups of water. I just viewed all three dough vids they all have the same values, and to check i just put a batch together as per the mixer vid and I stand by it.

MTPIZZA · « **Reply #49 on:** May 29, 2012, 02:08:01 PM »

Ok, thanks Bubba for reviewing the vids, and clarifying. Will make a batch soon and report back, I want to be sure and weigh the flour etc that I'm using. Thanks

Pete-zza · « **Reply #50 on:** May 29, 2012, 07:02:05 PM »

For those with a basic KitchenAid stand mixer with a C hook, it might help to sift the flour (before adding the IDY) and add the flour/IDY gradually to the water and oil in the mixer bowl (with the salt and sugar dissolved in the water). It might also help to start with the paddle attachment before switching over to the C hook. Even then, some human intervention may be required. Another alternative is to use a food processor, although the food processor will not be able to handle 50 ounces of dough. For either a standard KitchenAid mix with a C hook or a food processor, I would make small dough batches within the limit of the capacity of the mixer or processor. Reply 28 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,19201.msg187980.html#msg187980 shows how to make these kinds of adjustments.

Peter

eiram21 · « **Reply #51 on:** May 31, 2012, 08:01:15 PM »

Hi Peter,
I'm curious - what kind of mixer do you use? I've got a Kitchen-Aid, and it's not ideal for kneading dough.

Marie

Pete-zza · « **Reply #52 on:** May 31, 2012, 08:29:05 PM »

Quote from: eiram21 on May 31, 2012, 08:01:15 PM

Hi Peter,
I'm curious - what kind of mixer do you use? I've got a Kitchen-Aid, and it's not ideal for kneading dough.

Marie

Marie,

I am a gluten for punishment. I have a basic KitchenAid stand mixer, Model KSM90, with a C hook, now over 20 years old.

Peter

TXCraig1 · « **Reply #53 on:** May 31, 2012, 08:30:30 PM »

I have a 20 year old KitchenAid K5SS. As long as I don't try to do more than about 1300g flour, I don't have any problems with the mixer and C-hook.

dmcavanagh · « **Reply #54 on:** June 01, 2012, 08:05:40 AM »

My KA is about 30 years old, it's the "real deal" a Hobart made Kitchen Aid with C-hook. I rarely use it to make pizza dough, I am an old fashioned old fart and like to make my dough by hand. My tools are a glass mixing bowl and a Danish dough whisk and the both work just fine.

Bubba Kuhn · « **Reply #55 on:** June 01, 2012, 08:54:51 AM »

Quote from: dmcavanagh on June 01, 2012, 08:05:40 AM

My KA is about 30 years old, it's the "real deal" a Hobart made Kitchen Aid with C-hook. I rarely use it to make pizza dough, I am an old fashioned old fart and like to make my dough by hand. My tools are a glass mixing bowl and a Danish dough whisk and the both work just fine.

There is no reason to make a mixer dirty. I like the well method myself.

eiram21 · « **Reply #56 on:** June 01, 2012, 09:29:18 AM »

I end up kneading my hand as well - my KA is no more than 10 years old - I don't believe that would qualify it as mfg by Hobart?

Anyhow, I have a very hard time getting the windowpaning using the KA alone unless I let the dough rest for a few minutes (10 min or so) - is that cheating?

I had some extra dough yesterday. I cut the dough into small balls and cooked them in my Weber using a pizza stone that had been placed on top on a deep dish pan - best rolls I've had in a while...yum! I was able to bake at high 500s/low 600s...I'm going to try that with the pizza tonight provided it doesn't rain.

dmcavanagh · « **Reply #57 on:** June 01, 2012, 11:25:01 AM »

eiram21

Hobart sold KitchenAid to Whirlpool in 1986, so anything after that date is not a Hobart.

Pete-zza · « **Reply #58 on:** June 01, 2012, 11:38:07 AM »

Marie,

Here is a post that I sometimes cite on the subject of windowpaning: Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9027.msg78054/topicseen.html#msg78054.

Peter

eiram21 · « **Reply #59 on:** June 01, 2012, 12:21:56 PM »

Quote from: dmcavanagh on June 01, 2012, 11:25:01 AM

eiram21

Hobart sold KitchenAid to Whirlpool in 1986, so anything after that date is not a Hobart.

Darn! I'll have to hit E-bay and cross my fingers...lol

Quote from: Pete-zza on June 01, 2012, 11:38:07 AM

Marie,

Here is a post that I sometimes cite on the subject of windowpaning: Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9027.msg78054/topicseen.html#msg78054.

Peter

Thanks Peter!