Author Topic: Dough Trough size?  (Read 4300 times)

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Offline weemis

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Dough Trough size?
« on: May 17, 2012, 09:05:13 AM »
Hey all,

I've been looking into purchasing a wooden dough trough for hand-making my dough. Mixers can be problematic and super expensive, and I like the aspect of feeling the dough. I see a lot of talk on here about what size mixers it takes for a certain amount of flour. Would any of you have any clue what size dough trough would be needed for a 25 lb bag of flour at about 65% hydration? I suppose I can do 25 lbs of flour in two batches if the size of the trough would be way too big to manage.

I've talked to a guy and he's willing to make me whatever size I need, but I'm currently clueless as to what size that would be. I'm not even sure how it would be calculated. Any of you mathematical folk out there got any clue? Or anyone have any experience with troughs and can recommend a size?

The picture below is of a 31.5"x15.5"x5" trough (I think it's stacked on top of another trough). This is the biggest one he's got made currently.

thoughts?

Nick Gore - just a dough eyed wanderer


buceriasdon

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Re: Dough Trough size?
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2012, 09:47:30 AM »
I don't see an advantage to using a trough. I would think a large flat surface would be more stable for kneading. to my eyes at least it would move around.
Don

Offline weemis

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Re: Dough Trough size?
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2012, 10:09:59 AM »
I've never had much luck with mixing all the ingredients together (water especially) on a flat surface. The one time I tried, it was a nightmare clean-up. Maybe I didn't applying the proper technique.

My current technique involves a bowl for the initial mix (5 lbs of flour at a time) and then a transfer to the countertop for mixing once it gets doughy. But I'm not sure if my countertop will be large enough to handle the job once scaled up (tiny kitchen). Hence the usage of something with sides. The bowl is probably around 10-15 lbs, so it has some heft to it, but then I've never used one. I assume that if dough troughs were prevalent before electric mixers, people were using them over flat surfaces for a reason. But then that's just me assuming things.

anyone have any experience with a dough trough?

Nick Gore - just a dough eyed wanderer

Offline weemis

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Re: Dough Trough size?
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2012, 09:42:50 AM »
I finally got a dough trough from www.doughbowlsbyvan.com. For the size, I just calculated the size of one 25 lb bag of flour (LxWxH=cubic inches) and doubled it. The guy had one made that was a little bigger than i asked for, so I ended up with this. It's 30.5x16x6.5. It's a red maple with cherry inlay on the handle. I put my one year old in there to get an idea of what size it is. It's like his very own little canoe. All he needs is a paddle and he's set.

I just got it yesterday, so I have yet to use it. This should make large batches of dough a lot more manageable... or so I imagine. For my last mobile WFO gig, I made 15 lbs of dough and it was a mess. hopefully this solves those problems.
Nick Gore - just a dough eyed wanderer

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dough Trough size?
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2012, 09:49:11 AM »
Nick,

I remember some years ago searching for a small wooden bowl of a size for making only a small amount of dough and was appalled by the prices of the bowls I found from my searches. Can you tell us how much your dough trough cost? And is the wood treated in any way?

Peter

Offline SinoChef

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Re: Dough Trough size?
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2012, 09:50:15 AM »
I'm with Don. Don't see the advantage. But throw some flour and water in with your child and let him go nuts.

That would be a marketing pic!  :)

Offline SinoChef

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Re: Dough Trough size?
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2012, 10:00:27 AM »

Or, Actually, this reminds me of a conversation I had with a Certified Master Baker, on why we could not achieve the bread I was eating in Europe.

The baker we were using had these wooden bowls he would use to proof his rounds in. Never cleaned them, just soaked them in water. It was the bugs. The wood was alive with bugs. Illegal to do in the US.

Mr. Lehmann could probably elaborate further if he see this one.

Offline weemis

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Re: Dough Trough size?
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2012, 10:45:05 AM »
Nick,

I remember some years ago searching for a small wooden bowl of a size for making only a small amount of dough and was appalled by the prices of the bowls I found from my searches. Can you tell us how much your dough trough cost? And is the wood treated in any way?

Peter

Yeah, sure. The bowl costed $275 with shipping (which was $50 from south carolina). the price tag on the bowl said $250 when i got it, so it looks like i somehow saved $25. Sounds like a lot, but it's carved out of one piece of wood, and it takes months to finish. he quoted me 2-4 months if he made it to my specs (which he also said he didn't do bowls exactly to measurements, just "close"). Not to mention this bowl is huge! I think of it as a work of art that is also very functional. And it beats the heck out of the cost of a mixer, and will last a heck of a lot longer! Van gave me a lifetime guarantee, though he was sure to mention lifetime being his lifetime, and not mine  :-D

I asked him how to treat it and he said to wash it wash it like 4 times a year, making sure not to submerge it in water. After washing, I'm supposed to rub it down with mineral oil. It doesn't feel shellacked, so I'm assuming it's just rubbed down with mineral oil.

I'm with Don. Don't see the advantage. But throw some flour and water in with your child and let him go nuts.

That would be a marketing pic!  :)

I measured the counter space I have in my kitchen for making dough and it's 25"x18". mixing a 25 lb bag of flour into dough on that surface with no side walls is not something I want to play around with. The dough trough can go anywhere, as well. It just made sense for my needs.

I gotta start my boy helping out sometime. He can't chop wood yet. Toss him in the dough bowl and let him have at mixing some dough! I can just imagine the chaotic mess that would ensue :o
Nick Gore - just a dough eyed wanderer

Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: Dough Trough size?
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2012, 11:04:50 AM »
I gotta start my boy helping out sometime. He can't chop wood yet. Toss him in the dough bowl and let him have at mixing some dough! I can just imagine the chaotic mess that would ensue :o

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPNyK7XTy6o" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPNyK7XTy6o</a>

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dough Trough size?
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2012, 11:33:46 AM »
Nick,

When Chris Bianco started making pizza dough, he said in an interview that he used a large bowl and hand kneading since he could not afford a mixer (see Reply 43 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4693.msg41567/topicseen.html#msg41567). For the longest time, Brian Spangler hand kneaded his dough also but not long ago he concluded that the physical rigors of hand kneading became too much for him, so he went with an old Hobart planetary mixer. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised is Bianco went the same route.

Peter


Offline weemis

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Re: Dough Trough size?
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2012, 12:14:14 PM »
Nick,

When Chris Bianco started making pizza dough, he said in an interview that he used a large bowl and hand kneading since he could not afford a mixer (see Reply 43 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4693.msg41567/topicseen.html#msg41567). For the longest time, Brian Spangler hand kneaded his dough also but not long ago he concluded that the physical rigors of hand kneading became too much for him, so he went with an old Hobart planetary mixer. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised is Bianco went the same route.

Peter


Yeah Peter, I can see how years of hand mixing could wear one down. If it gets too much, I can see it going two ways. One, I invest in a mixer. This will no doubt be a time when I'm actually making money off pizza as opposed to struggling to get a business off the ground, bootstrapping all the way. Two, I pay someone else to do it. Both cases require me to be making enough money to change my current state of things, so we'll just have to wait and see what happens. But to tell you the truth, I really like making the dough by hand. It just feels right. And I just picked up my first bag of Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour a few weeks ago... that dough is like velvet. Even better!

When I was at Bianco this past December, I asked my server if they still made their dough by hand. It was hard for me to understand him, but I'm pretty sure he said yes. He said they do it all at their bakery location, so I couldn't peek in to see the setup or them in action.

I'm just making it up as I go along. This is the answer to my current problem. If another problem pops up... yo, i'll solve it.
Nick Gore - just a dough eyed wanderer

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Dough Trough size?
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2012, 12:20:22 PM »
That is a beautiful bowl and $250 sounds like an incredible price. I would have thought 2X that.

CL
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Offline norma427

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Re: Dough Trough size?
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2012, 12:39:23 PM »
weemis,

This is the dough box I have.  It is fairly big and I had thought about taking the picture albums out and trying to make dough in it one time, but never got around to it.  It does have a lid.  I don't think it was ever used for making pizza dough though.  It was probably used for bread dough.  I think I only paid about 65.00 for it.  I think it could handle a pretty large batch of pizza dough.

Good luck with making pizza dough in your large bowl.  It is very nice!  :)

Norma
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Offline weemis

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Re: Dough Trough size?
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2012, 01:00:59 PM »
weemis,

This is the dough box I have.  It is fairly big and I had thought about taking the picture albums out and trying to make dough in it one time, but never got around to it.  It does have a lid.  I don't think it was ever used for making pizza dough though.  It was probably used for bread dough.  I think I only paid about 65.00 for it.  I think it could handle a pretty large batch of pizza dough.

Good luck with making pizza dough in your large bowl.  It is very nice!  :)

Norma

wow! that's awesome, Norma! I'm curious what the mechanism looks like and how difficult it is to clean. if you decide to use it sometime, be sure and post some pictures on this thread.

and thanks for the well wishes!


NickG
Nick Gore - just a dough eyed wanderer

Offline norma427

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Re: Dough Trough size?
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2012, 01:08:05 PM »
Nick,

It just is an old dough box with nothing inside.  It is about 3' long with the width being about 15" and the height is about 11 1/2".  I did use an old Universal dough mixer a few times to make dough, but don't think I will ever mix enough dough to try in the dough box.  If I ever take all the pictures albums out of the dough box I will take another picture.

Norma
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 01:10:40 PM by norma427 »
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Offline weemis

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Re: Dough Trough size?
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2012, 01:56:41 PM »
Nick,

It just is an old dough box with nothing inside.  It is about 3' long with the width being about 15" and the height is about 11 1/2".  I did use an old Universal dough mixer a few times to make dough, but don't think I will ever mix enough dough to try in the dough box.  If I ever take all the pictures albums out of the dough box I will take another picture.

Norma

Ahh... I saw the rotating handle and thought it was a mixing arm or something. LOL @ pictures in it. I wonder what will come of the new dough trough years after it's served its dough use. It'll probably end up on someone's dining room table holding fake fruit or something, not knowing the awesome life it once knew.


NickG
Nick Gore - just a dough eyed wanderer

Offline norma427

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Re: Dough Trough size?
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2012, 06:17:59 PM »
Ahh... I saw the rotating handle and thought it was a mixing arm or something. LOL @ pictures in it. I wonder what will come of the new dough trough years after it's served its dough use. It'll probably end up on someone's dining room table holding fake fruit or something, not knowing the awesome life it once knew.


NickG

Nick,

Lol, that was just an old coffee grinder that I had on top of the dough box.  :-D I also wondered what my dough box was used for and how many times it was used.  Hopefully someone in your family will also make some kind of dough in your dough trough years from now.   ;D

Norma
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Offline weemis

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Re: Dough Trough size?
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2012, 02:02:30 PM »
I've used my beautiful dough bowl twice thus far. Reports are that it's exactly what I've been looking for. While I've only made small batches (12 or so lbs of dough... small in comparison to the enormity of the bowl), it's perfect for my needs. As Don mentioned, there is a bit of moving around, but nothing at all detrimental, or even off-putting to working the dough. And given the style in which I hand knead the dough, it's hardly a bother at all. And I can always use my waste as an anchor.

The bowl also has a slight wobble from the bottom not being perfectly flat on one corner. I'm thinking it an easy fix, but have yet to attempt it. Perhaps a rubber foot can be applied to both balance and prevent movement as well?

The instructions were to only wash it 4 times a year, letting the bowl collect a film of dough and flour in between washes. I was a little concerned about leaving dough residue in there at first, but after using it twice, it seems to be the right way to go. I've also got a plastic dough scraper that I use for all the wet stuff that can easily be scraped away. This works great!

My review thus far is nothing but positive, aside from the slightly uneven bottom corner. Now my only concern is if the health department would allow it used for commercial purposes. I suppose they can only tell me it's a problem if they know about it  ;D >:D

:angel:


NickG
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 02:04:12 PM by weemis »
Nick Gore - just a dough eyed wanderer

Offline weemis

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Re: Dough Trough size?
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2012, 04:30:51 PM »
I just cleaned my dough bowl for the first time and thought I'd report on it. I sprayed it down with a spray bottle of water and scraped all the build-up off with a plastic dough scraper. After cleaned and dried, I rubbed it down with nice coat of food grade mineral oil from the grocery store (it's sold as a laxative in the pharmacy dept.) and she's glowing like the day I got her!

I've made up to 25 lbs of dough in the bowl thus far with great success. And while it all fit ok, it was a bit of a struggle physically. I'd probably break it into two batches if I needed anything larger than that. I'm wondering how Bianco made all their dough by hand!? 25 lbs of finished dough was a lot! I can't imagine doing enough for an entire restaurant night after night! Mabye once I build up my dough muscles, things'll be different  :D


Nick Gore - just a dough eyed wanderer

Offline rcbaughn

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Re: Dough Trough size?
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2012, 05:02:22 PM »
That is a beautiful dough bowl, I never would've guessed it was newly made and not an antique. My dad found a really old dough bowl that is probably a few inches longer than yours in an old house on some land that one of his friends bought. Luckily the guy didn't care about antiques or anything to do with old stuff, so he sold it to dad for $20. It isn't cracked anywhere and is about the same depth as yours I suppose. I've never been able to make a large enough batch of anything to get to use it, but hearing that someone here is actually working with one makes me wanna go get a ton of flour and freeze a bunch of dough balls. :-D I wonder what else people have prepare in dough bowls way back when.

I bet you don't get a lot of oxidation in the dough working with that amount do you? Seems Kenji over at Slice really pushes that oxidation reduces rising and maybe it does, I just have never read up on it or tested it.
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