Author Topic: Dark Color of Giordano's Crust  (Read 3201 times)

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Offline PBDoughBoy

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Dark Color of Giordano's Crust
« on: October 12, 2005, 05:45:29 PM »
Last August was my first time in Chicago, and my wife and I ate at Giordano's for the first time. After that experience it took us all but two days to find this site!

Thanks to Buzz, DKM, and all the others here I was able to reproduce the crust texture and taste. Everything seems right except the COLOR. Giordano's had a light brown / dark crust, whereas the KA-AP homemade version has a lighter bready color. I even remember Uno's having a darker color.

I've tried both Buzz's and DKM's.. same color.

Then I tried a mixture of whole wheat flour. Color came out nice but the crust really tasted bad.

I've tried 400^F, 450, and even 500.. tried the top rack, bottom rack.. no difference.

How do they get such a dark color? Artificial coloring? Flour? Temperature?  ???

Thanks.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dark Color of Giordano's Crust
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2005, 07:59:46 PM »
I will defer to DKM, buzz and the other deep-dish experts on this forum, but my recollection is that Tom Lehmann, who comes from Chicago, says to use a deep-dish pan with a dark anodized finish (non-stick). The dark colored pan will cook faster (it absorbs energy better) than a plain aluminum pan and will provide a darker color in the crust. He also says to use vegetable oil in the pan before placing the dough. That will allow the crust to get crispy, much in the manner of the Pizza Hut pan pizza. You can also use butter but it is likely to produce a softer, less crispy crust. Tom Lehmann often recommends that the butter (or Crisco) be placed in the dough rather than in the pan.

Another possibility is to increase the amount of sugar in the dough. If you don't like the sweetness that sugar provides you can use dried dairy whey instead. It includes sugar in the form of lactose (70 percent lactose) but the lactose has a low sweetness factor and won't show up as sweet. You get crust browning but not the sweetness. I would suggest about 2-3% dried dairy whey by weight of flour.

Peter

Offline DKM

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Re: Dark Color of Giordano's Crust
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2005, 09:45:36 AM »
That's a good starting place, what kind of pan are you using?

DKM
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Offline buzz

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Re: Dark Color of Giordano's Crust
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2005, 10:28:33 AM »
According to Pat Bruno, Chicago deep dish places use a food coloring called "egg shade" to give a golden color to their crusts. I think this might have given rise to the corn meal myth.

Offline PBDoughBoy

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Re: Dark Color of Giordano's Crust
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2005, 05:43:19 PM »
Thanks everybody. I'm using a regular silver colored non-stick metal pan. I'm thinking about buying some black pans on ebay. Anything special I should look for? Some say "seasoned". I'll try a little of the egg shade coloring - that's a great idea.

Richard

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dark Color of Giordano's Crust
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2005, 06:48:17 PM »
Richard,

Even if you go to eBay to look for deep-dish pans, I would go to pizzatools.com first and look at the different options. Feel free to look at Chicago Metallic and other sources also to get a better feel for what pans are out there. I think you will want to have a pan that is at least 2" deep. Many of the pans I have seen on eBay are either silent on the depth or they are less than 2" deep. I see no reason why a "seasoned" pan shouldn't work, especially if it is one that was actually used in a business to make deep-dish pies. I see a lot of used seasoned pans on eBay. There are also many dark anodized/non-stick cake pans that can also be used for deep dish.

I tried using a yellow dye in some deep-dish crusts. I used the only yellow dye I could find in the supermarket. If you would like to see what the crust looks like using the dye, go to http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,638.0.html and look at Reply #19 and Reply #20 on the following page.

Peter

Offline PBDoughBoy

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Re: Dark Color of Giordano's Crust
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2005, 07:01:19 PM »
Peter,

Those pictures show a nice light yellow crust that I have seen before. But that is the regular yellow dye as you said, so I wonder what the egg shade looks like.. I found some at a bakery supply store here in Phoenix. I'm going to try that and post some pictures this weekend. The crust I got at Giordano's a couple months ago was very dark brown - almost the color of a paper grocery sack. Does anyone know the tempuratures and times Giordano's uses? The pie I got from them seemed pretty well-done.

Richard

Offline DKM

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Re: Dark Color of Giordano's Crust
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2005, 10:02:56 PM »
I would go to ebay and buy a good used pizza hutt "Pan Pizza" pan.

Also how much oil do you use in the pan?

DKM
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Offline PBDoughBoy

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Re: Dark Color of Giordano's Crust
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2005, 10:11:20 PM »
I've been watching for Pizza Hut pans but all I ever see are the Personal-size pans.

I'm just spraying a little Pam cooking spray on the pans.. haven't tried oil.

Richard

Offline buzz

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Re: Dark Color of Giordano's Crust
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2005, 10:38:15 AM »
That's a pretty dark color for a Giordano's--usually they are golden brown throughout the outer crust.

I believe they cook at 450.


Offline DKM

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Re: Dark Color of Giordano's Crust
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2005, 11:09:43 AM »
I've been watching for Pizza Hut pans but all I ever see are the Personal-size pans.

I'm just spraying a little Pam cooking spray on the pans.. haven't tried oil.

Richard

That could be part of the issue.  Try using a good olive oil (NOT extra virgin or light) and make sure the bottom and sides are well covered.

DKM
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Offline PBDoughBoy

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Re: Dark Color of Giordano's Crust
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2005, 05:27:13 PM »
Mine was that dark. Got it at the one on 223 W. Jackson Blvd. It was good though.

I'll try the olive oil and see what happens.

Richard

Offline buzz

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Re: Dark Color of Giordano's Crust
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2005, 09:50:29 AM »
Giordano's greases their pans with gobs of margarine (I'm assuming it's margarine for cost purposes, but it could be butter).

Offline DKM

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Re: Dark Color of Giordano's Crust
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2005, 12:10:54 PM »
That would account for the deep brown color.

Uno's, Malnati's use olive oil and Gino's may as well.

DKM
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