Author Topic: Oven temperatrure for upper lower element.  (Read 1658 times)

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Offline The Dub Oracle

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Oven temperatrure for upper lower element.
« on: May 28, 2012, 08:55:30 AM »
Hello, again.
I burned my last pizza in my home build electric oven because i cant tune the temperature good enough for the lower heating element, so now i have ordered a pizza oven that works on 220Volts that has two thermostats for this reason.
Its a MGM oven, the cheapest they had for 550 Dollar.

My question is what the temperatures must be for the lower and upper heating element.
I want to bake the pizza in 3 minutes or 4 minutes at a temperature from 300 to 350 degrees celsius.
Anyway it must bake in 3 or 4 minutes, i measured that kind of temperatures in my own home build oven.
Can someone give me any directions to begin with ? so i wont end up in burning the bottem of my pizza.

Kind regards
Albert.  
« Last Edit: May 28, 2012, 08:57:35 AM by The Dub Oracle »


Online scott123

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Re: Oven temperatrure for upper lower element.
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2012, 03:43:10 PM »
Albert, these kind of small countertop ovens can be notoriously unreliable.  They're rarely made well. Hopefully this oven will be the exception to the rule, but, if there's still time to cancel your order, I would.

If, on the other hand, your order can't be canceled, here's how I'd bake with it:

1. Carefully remove the bottom stone and measure the thickness.  These kinds of ovens tend to have really thin stones- less than a cm. You'll want to know what thickness hearth you're working with.  If the stone is thin, set the bottom element to 325 c and pre-heat for 1/2 hour.  If the stone is thicker, go for a full hour.

2. After the stone has been heated, take readings of different areas of the stone with an IR thermometer.  On a very thin stone, you might get hot spots. If you do get variations of more than 12 degrees, pre-heat the stone to 350 c, then turn the oven off and let it cool until the stone is 325. This will give you more even temps.

3. Once you have a 325 c stone, turn the top element on the max temperature, wait until it begins to glow red and launch the pizza. As the pizza bakes, take note of how long the top burner stays on for and whether or not it cuts out.

4. Check the bottom of the pizza after 2 minutes. If it is dark, put a pan or a screen under it.

Ideally, the 325 c hearth will give you good color in 3-4 minutes, while the glowing top element will stay on and give you good top browning in that same amount of time.   That probably won't be the case, though, and you'll need to tweak the settings until you get the results you want.  The worst case scenario will be if the top element is very weak.  If that's the case, then you'll need to raise the hearth a bit. But let's not get ahead of ourselves.

While I'm generally very skeptical of these kind of ovens, the separate thermostats and the 4 KW power usage are both encouraging.

Offline The Dub Oracle

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Re: Oven temperatrure for upper lower element.
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2012, 09:47:49 AM »
Albert, these kind of small countertop ovens can be notoriously unreliable.  They're rarely made well. Hopefully this oven will be the exception to the rule, but, if there's still time to cancel your order, I would.

If, on the other hand, your order can't be canceled, here's how I'd bake with it:

1. Carefully remove the bottom stone and measure the thickness.  These kinds of ovens tend to have really thin stones- less than a cm. You'll want to know what thickness hearth you're working with.  If the stone is thin, set the bottom element to 325 c and pre-heat for 1/2 hour.  If the stone is thicker, go for a full hour.

2. After the stone has been heated, take readings of different areas of the stone with an IR thermometer.  On a very thin stone, you might get hot spots. If you do get variations of more than 12 degrees, pre-heat the stone to 350 c, then turn the oven off and let it cool until the stone is 325. This will give you more even temps.

3. Once you have a 325 c stone, turn the top element on the max temperature, wait until it begins to glow red and launch the pizza. As the pizza bakes, take note of how long the top burner stays on for and whether or not it cuts out.

4. Check the bottom of the pizza after 2 minutes. If it is dark, put a pan or a screen under it.

Ideally, the 325 c hearth will give you good color in 3-4 minutes, while the glowing top element will stay on and give you good top browning in that same amount of time.   That probably won't be the case, though, and you'll need to tweak the settings until you get the results you want.  The worst case scenario will be if the top element is very weak.  If that's the case, then you'll need to raise the hearth a bit. But let's not get ahead of ourselves.

While I'm generally very skeptical of these kind of ovens, the separate thermostats and the 4 KW power usage are both encouraging.


You begin with a wors case senario, but i hope this is a good oven.
I bought it from a company that delivers to restaurants, i talked to them and they say that they only deliver good brands for their costumers.
So i think this would be a good oven, if its not, i will let you know.

I see what you mean with temperature, i ordered some baking trays from metal also, that wil solve these kinds of problems to.
I can also place the stone from the other oven in it, thats a grill stone of 12mm thick.
I did some calculations in Watts and oven volume on my own build oven and this oven has almost the same power and volume as my own.
4kw is on 380Volts, that will be 2.2kw on 220Volts.
Thanks for the advice for the bottem temperature, i will start from there.

Here is a link to the website of these kind of ovens

http://www.gmgoven.com/

This oven type PF 5050 E
You see its out of a serie from proffesional ovens.
 
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 09:56:09 AM by The Dub Oracle »

Offline The Dub Oracle

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Re: Oven temperatrure for upper lower element.
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2012, 06:59:10 AM »
My oven arived, heheh.
Its a big proffesional oven. it could be standing in a restaurant.
But sadly its also a 2 fase oven, it must be connected at 2 fases (220V).
I have figured out that i also can connect it to 2 seperate groups of my electrical systhem, otherwise the oven would consume to mutch power.
But it must run through the same ground leak switch (i dont know how its called in englisch).
Maybe its better to open a new topic for this, it could mean that many more now can connect a 2 fase profesional oven without rebuilding the electrical systhem suited for 3 fase power current like restaurants have.
 
Gladly there where some guidelines on paper with the delivery of the oven for baking pizza.
Totally different from what you adviced, but you must mean real temperatures to measure.


« Last Edit: June 03, 2012, 07:04:17 AM by The Dub Oracle »

Online scott123

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Re: Oven temperatrure for upper lower element.
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2012, 02:27:02 PM »
Albert, I can see, from the other thread, that you were able to get this oven up and running. Congratulations.

A 12mm stone is a bit discouraging. Full size pizza ovens have decks in the 25+ mm realm. It's not the end of the world, but, if you're doing multiple pizzas, it might impact your recovery time.

Crank it up and see what it can do.  Take a load of temperature measurements- both before the pizza goes in and after it comes out.  Watch the top element during the bake to see if it stays on. Please keep us informed as to how this oven works for you.  If it does turn out to be viable, that would be great news for other European members looking for a good countertop.

Offline The Dub Oracle

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Re: Oven temperatrure for upper lower element.
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2012, 09:01:01 AM »
Albert, I can see, from the other thread, that you were able to get this oven up and running. Congratulations.

A 12mm stone is a bit discouraging. Full size pizza ovens have decks in the 25+ mm realm. It's not the end of the world, but, if you're doing multiple pizzas, it might impact your recovery time.

Crank it up and see what it can do.  Take a load of temperature measurements- both before the pizza goes in and after it comes out.  Watch the top element during the bake to see if it stays on. Please keep us informed as to how this oven works for you.  If it does turn out to be viable, that would be great news for other European members looking for a good countertop.

Hi, again.

I am busy with my new oven and i must say, its a realy good oven, must be because its a proffesional oven ( i dont know how mutch crap is solled).
I dont have a temperature divice ( you must mean with a laser ) to measure the temperature correct.
The stone is indeed about 14mm thick, but its made from that brownish stone.
I dont know what the recovery time will be, but on the other hand the stone is that thin that the heat is mutch quicker through the stone itself.
But i dont know what the time will be.

This is a affordebly oven and there are some more brands that are not that expensive, like the Roma 1 oven and some more.
They are made in the same way, and use a 2 fase connection.
I am sure that in the States there must be ovens availeble like this to, it could not be otherwise seen technically.
It just must be connected in the same way.
Just make sure that the elements run on 110/220 volts and not on 180/380 volts.
Technical it would be possible that you have 3 elements that run on 380 between the fases.
I dont see why its in America not possible to.

Yesterday i baked the first good pizza, it took 30 minutes to reach the temperature of 300 below and 370 up.
It whas baked in exact 3 minutes.
I just got to experiment some more for a baking time of 4 minutes, otherwise ( i discovered ) the herbs like garlic (or pesto) will evapourate when its baked to long, or the vegetables will not be crunchy, or have not enough taste when its baked to short.
But thats a different story.

Funny also that i had to replace the lower heating element, it caused to pop out the groundleak switch.
Very nice from the store where i bought this oven to thrust me in this technical problem, they sended a other heating element so i could replace it.
All just works fine right now.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 09:04:35 AM by The Dub Oracle »

Offline The Dub Oracle

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Re: Oven temperatrure for upper lower element.
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2012, 08:26:14 AM »
Yesterday i baked 2 pizza's because i now know what the temperatures must be on the thermostats.
I had it 280 below and 360 up.
The guidance set that it must take 5 to 6 minutes, but it whas done in exact 3 minutes.
They must mean baking time with a mutch larger pizza.
The second pizza whas done even quicker what i do not understand but i could be mistaken for a minute or so.
You are right in the recover time, the undersite whas not that brown, so i let the door open to bake it some further from beneath.
I think the revover time will be about 5 minutes, must be it because my pizza pan whas on temperature in 10 minutes, and this oven is already heated, must be the case it i think.
All works out well i must say.
But i must further understand how the heat distribution is working in this oven.
The top element is playing a part to in heating the stone as well.
The guidance says for shorter baking times that you must increase the heat of the top thermostat.
The lower thermostat stays on 280 in both examples they give in temperature and baking times.
I am totally happy with this oven, its profesional without a doubt.

Only thing is that the first i heated it, it smelled like hell, like motor oil.
If anyone buys sutch a oven, first let it reach the highest temeratures to burn the rockwool.
I removed the rockwool from the door as wel, i burned it above a fire and mounted it again.
The most smelly part i think.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 08:29:05 AM by The Dub Oracle »

Offline The Dub Oracle

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Re: Oven temperatrure for upper lower element.
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2012, 08:38:23 AM »
Picture for the imagination :'(


 

pizzapan