Author Topic: Cracker-ization of a Chicago thin  (Read 7635 times)

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Offline mykall

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Cracker-ization of a Chicago thin
« on: May 29, 2012, 10:35:24 PM »
Still trying to dupe the Chicago thin I remember from the early 80's.  Every dough/crust I've tried though were just too bready and not snap-crackety enough.  I took a shot at a modified cracker with limited results.  I did not have high gluten so I used KABF.  I did not want sheeted layers so I used a single layer, this was closer to the style anyway.  This is much closer to what I remember particularly on the edges/corners.  I will need to thicken this crust though.   I know now that 250g flour is not enough for two pies of the size I wanted to make, nonetheless this was a good learning experience and keeping the pies small is the way to start.  Round was not exactly my friend on this pie but that is not what I was after.   This pie isn't a whole lot to look at, but it tasted good.  I'm becoming a big fan of a Provo/mozzi mix. What a difference in taste. Nowhere near the sauce though.  Nice thing is there is another dough on deck to 'speriment  with.  ;D


Offline Joe Redd

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Re: Cracker-ization of a Chicago thin
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2012, 03:14:01 PM »
Man, this looks good to me... I have been using Mozz and Provalone for quite some time.  I, too, am looking for a good
recipe for cracker crust.  That is why am am here viewing. ;D  Thanks!  //...

Offline mykall

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Re: Cracker-ization of a Chicago thin
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2012, 10:52:39 PM »
Joe,

I simply stole Fazari's percentages on the first page of the "Evolving thoughts" thread.  I believe he used a high gluten flour and I used KABF.   While a true "cracker" is layered/sheeted for effect I simply needed the crispiness and not necessarily the "true to form" cracker dough and therefore did not layer/sheet mine.  Simple rolling pin roll of the dough.  If I were a pizza shop this dough would have been much larger and then I'd use a cutter to make it round.  That was not my concern as I am working on duping a pie of the past and not aesthetics, and I'm getting closer.   Thanks.

Michael




Offline toddster63

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Re: Cracker-ization of a Chicago thin
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2012, 09:59:05 PM »
Michael,

Looks good—glad you are getting closer to the pizza of your memories...! Was this recipe with yeast?

I really recommend using HG flour, in particular KASL. I've used the classic All Trumps, and do not care for the taste, though it makes a crust almost as crackery and crunchy as the KASL. I love the crunch-eee and crackery crusts the KASL has given me. I use the Pizza Inn recipe here on PM.com with butter flavored Crisco as the oil...
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 10:01:06 PM by toddster63 »

Offline mykall

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Re: Cracker-ization of a Chicago thin
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2012, 10:49:11 PM »
Michael,

Looks good—glad you are getting closer to the pizza of your memories...! Was this recipe with yeast?

Yes it was.  Not sure though that it rose either in the fridge or in the 2 hour thaw when it was removed.  I have learned something though.  This type crust is not for 1 week cold rise as the Folgers can on the right was used after a 1 week cold rise, not by design, but by busy schedule.  It did *not* have the properties of the 3 day-er that is the can on the left.  Both came from the same lump in the KA mixer.  It was tough and leathery and not the "snap-crackety" I was looking for.  So yes you can still use 1 week old cold rise but for the right properties 3-4 days max I'd say.



 

Offline mykall

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Re: Cracker-ization of a Chicago thin
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2012, 12:07:15 AM »
Too much AP  60% and just too thick at certain points.  Did *not* pin roll this one but rather by hand.  Did not dock either as you can see.  Not sure I ever minded the bubbles as they're character.  Not exactly what I wanted but some progress and Pomi in the carton aren't bad for sauce, they're actually quite good, just not for the pie I'm trying to re-create.  One more for the learning curve!   

Offline orlando pizza man 1

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Re: Cracker-ization of a Chicago thin
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2012, 03:50:47 PM »
Mike: That is a great looking pizza there! I have been looking for a pizza this same way myself and have come close with BTB's Thin crust Semolina dough. By any chance would you be willing to share your recipe?? Would greatly appreciate it. I too have missed the pizzas that I had up north before moving to Florida. NO good pizza here in Orlando unless I make it myself. Thanks for the memories!

Offline mykall

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Re: Cracker-ization of a Chicago thin
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2012, 03:57:29 PM »
Mike: That is a great looking pizza there! I have been looking for a pizza this same way myself and have come close with BTB's Thin crust Semolina dough. By any chance would you be willing to share your recipe?? Would greatly appreciate it. I too have missed the pizzas that I had up north before moving to Florida. NO good pizza here in Orlando unless I make it myself. Thanks for the memories!

Sure, the top one is 100% KABF and the bottom one is 60% KAAP and 40% KABF.  The top one is about 70\30 Mozzi\Provolone and the bottom one is 70\30 Mozzi\Cheddar.

flour                         100%
filtered water               45
olive oil                        4
salt                             2
active dry yeast           .75

I recommend KABF or high gluten if you have it.  I cooked this on a stone not
the perforated pan it's on, I just don't have a solid one for serving.


« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 09:42:53 PM by mykall »

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Cracker-ization of a Chicago thin
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2012, 04:45:47 PM »
Looks like a very tasty curve. :chef:
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Offline dieterschmied

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Re: Cracker-ization of a Chicago thin
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2012, 01:48:50 PM »
what is "KAAP and 40% KABF"?
 
Why is it necessary to use letters instead of complete verbs? Is it that you all can't spell?


Online Pete-zza

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Re: Cracker-ization of a Chicago thin
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2012, 02:12:19 PM »
what is "KAAP and 40% KABF"?
 
Why is it necessary to use letters instead of complete verbs? Is it that you all can't spell?

dieterschmied,

The abbreviations KABF and KAAP stand for King Arthur bread flour and King Arthur all-purpose flour, respectively. They are common abbreviations on the forum. I agree that it would be nice if posters on the forum set up those terms for the benefit of other members who are unfamiliar with the terms, but using shorthand notations is par for the course these days. Some members use so many abbreviations and shorthand notations that even I have to think twice about what they are saying.

Peter
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 06:31:09 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline toddster63

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Re: Cracker-ization of a Chicago thin
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2012, 02:58:20 PM »
what is "KAAP and 40% KABF"?
 
Why is it necessary to use letters instead of complete verbs? Is it that you all can't spell?

Here lay the obstreperous issue with composing, typing and posting 5+ posts per day, consistently spelling out King Arthur All Purpose flour =or= King Arthur Bread Flour; this is a protracted episode of boring frustration (and maybe even tiring to keyboard hovering hands). Abbreviation is really an exercise of circumvention—honestly.

Offline mykall

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Re: Cracker-ization of a Chicago thin
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2012, 06:10:48 PM »
what is "KAAP and 40% KABF"?
 
Why is it necessary to use letters instead of complete verbs? Is it that you all can't spell?


Mmmm....  I dunno ?!   KAAP is  Cing Arther All-Perpose and KABF is Cing Arther Brad Flower.   Hope that helps.   :-D

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Cracker-ization of a Chicago thin
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2012, 09:11:38 PM »
Oh we can spell alright....can you?  G-L-O-S-S-A-R-Y  !!!
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Cracker-ization of a Chicago thin
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2012, 09:18:49 PM »
Oh we can spell alright....can you?  G-L-O-S-S-A-R-Y  !!!

Bob,

The forum's Pizza Glossary, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza_glossary.html#K, contains the abbreviation KASL for the King Arthur Sir Lancelot flour but not for the KAAP and KABF flours.

Peter

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Cracker-ization of a Chicago thin
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2012, 09:35:11 PM »
Oh yeah, thats right....well, I was referring to his other post where he did'nt know what evoo or ady was    ;D
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Offline dieterschmied

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Re: Cracker-ization of a Chicago thin
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2012, 08:45:26 PM »
Here lay the obstreperous issue with composing, typing and posting 5+ posts per day, consistently spelling out King Arthur All Purpose flour =or= King Arthur Bread Flour; this is a protracted episode of boring frustration (and maybe even tiring to keyboard hovering hands). Abbreviation is really an exercise of circumvention—honestly.

I find it hard to believe that you would be bored with spelling out words. That my question generated so many responses leads me to conclude that your boredom cannot be blamed on my question but perhaps on the fact that you really have nothing to say but that void doesn't deter you from responding whenever you have the opportunity to do so.
I wonder what these forums would be like if the responders were to respond less frequently and when they did respond, the response would have enough substance that it would be deserving of complete sentences that would convey a complete thought process that would allow casual readers an opportunity to learn of your wisdom without having to search for the beginning of a thread.
As it is, your abbreviated comments are not sufficient to entice the reader to benefit from your knowledge, that is, if your knowledge actually exists.
In this particular instance, I am curious why King Arthur brand flour is so important to producing cracker crusts. Is this just a name dropping or is there something unique about the King Arthur flour?  I am sure there is more than one grade or characteristic of that brand of flour. The fact that a blend was suggested and that the non-King Arthur portion of the blend was not particularly specified ( unless you consider  all-purpose as being specific), leaves me with the feeling that the specifics of the flour are not really that important. Therefore the use of KABF was superfluous had it been written out, I would not have wasted everyone's time with the question.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 08:53:13 PM by dieterschmied »

Offline mykall

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Re: Cracker-ization of a Chicago thin
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2012, 11:10:26 PM »
Looks like a very tasty curve. :chef:

Thanks JD.  Looks like I missed this last time around.  With pizza making there is always that "fantasy" pizza and when it doesn't materialize you criticize your pie.  The good thing is that often it isn't all that bad eating the quote/unquote "failure".   This is FUNN after all though.....right??  :pizza:

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Cracker-ization of a Chicago thin
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2012, 11:41:11 PM »
.
I wonder what these forums would be like if the responders were to respond less frequently and when they did respond, the response would have enough substance that it would be deserving of complete sentences that would convey a complete thought process that would allow casual readers an opportunity to learn of your wisdom without having to search for the beginning of a thread.

Wow...now that's a mouthful bruddah !!  Better catch your breath.
But to answer your question, dunno? Perhaps it would suit your disposition to go investigate some of "these forums" and get back to me with your findings just as soon as you possibly can....thanks man!!   ;)

Bob
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 11:47:52 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline toddster63

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Re: Cracker-ization of a Chicago thin
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2012, 11:41:30 PM »
I find it hard to believe that you would be bored with spelling out words. That my question generated so many responses leads me to conclude that your boredom cannot be blamed on my question but perhaps on the fact that you really have nothing to say but that void doesn't deter you from responding whenever you have the opportunity to do so.
I wonder what these forums would be like if the responders were to respond less frequently and when they did respond, the response would have enough substance that it would be deserving of complete sentences that would convey a complete thought process that would allow casual readers an opportunity to learn of your wisdom without having to search for the beginning of a thread.
As it is, your abbreviated comments are not sufficient to entice the reader to benefit from your knowledge, that is, if your knowledge actually exists.
In this particular instance, I am curious why King Arthur brand flour is so important to producing cracker crusts. Is this just a name dropping or is there something unique about the King Arthur flour?  I am sure there is more than one grade or characteristic of that brand of flour. The fact that a blend was suggested and that the non-King Arthur portion of the blend was not particularly specified ( unless you consider  all-purpose as being specific), leaves me with the feeling that the specifics of the flour are not really that important. Therefore the use of KABF was superfluous had it been written out, I would not have wasted everyone's time with the question.


First and foremost, this thread/conversation is going nowhere and not particularly pleasantly either—bad places for pizzamaking.com in particular. I have been reading and learning, posting and actively participating in this community for over 5 years—and unlike many other forums I have participated in (including various interests such as aquaria, other forms of home cooking, vintage sports cars, dogs, parrots, and professional companion animal grooming), pizzamaking.com has almost universally been a very friendly and upbeat and non-confrontive and supportive place that is very focused on what the topic of the site is—home pizza making of various styles with sharing of knowledge and techniques (often in extensive detail including photography). So I apologize if I went smart-ass on your comment about abbreviations. It just is so common here among the regulars; as well as being so uncommon around here to have negative criticisms concerning—well, almost anything. So, for me (and I invite all others), enough of this conversation with a critical edge and un-helpful slant...

So, regarding King Arthur flour: myself, and a lot of others, that bake regularly (pizzas, breads, muffins, popovers, etc..) really do notice a difference with better end results when using King Arthur flours, both in taste and in baking performance. Not that King Arthur flour products are always the best and most superlative choice. But for general all purpose baking, including home bread making—as well as high gluten pizza flour in my estimation—King Arthur flour products seem to many of us a cut above lots of others on the market. I still adore my winter wheat flour choice, Gold Medal's Better For Bread (in contrast to King Arthur's spring wheat bread flour); as well as Caputo's 00 choices for high heat bake Neapolitan style pizzas; however my experience with general home baking, and for high gluten NY style pizza making (I heartily have found that General Mill's All Trumps more bitter and more temperamental at temps over 600F), has put King Arthur flour products in a strong leading role for most of my home baking applications. However, some home cooks-bakers and home pizza makers do not agree with me and others concerning King Arthur flour products, and consider King Arthur flour products over-rated and over-priced (I too have been annoyed to see the costs of King Arthur flour products rise by as much as 40% here on the west coast in the last few years).

When making pizza crusts in the cracker style, high gluten flours are really a big help in obtaining a crunchy, crispy texture. The higher protein (wheat gluten) has more gluten bonds and these more numerous bonds makes for a crisp texture as the post bake solidified bonds snap as you bite into the crust. Literally more like a cracker, in these pizza styles that rely less on yeast activity/rising (whereas when yeast fermentation plays a bigger role in more traditional doughs like New York and Neo New York styles, higher gluten provides both crunch and an overall chewy texture due to the much more numerous gluten bonds you have to chew through). I have tried General Mill's All Trumps flours (bromated and bleached and unbromated and unbleached), and found what I considered a significant difference from King Arthur's high gluten flour choice, Sir Lancelot. General Mill's All Trumps to me had less taste and flavor (even bitter at it's worst), and browned (burned even) to a much higher degree for me when using the same recipes and baking environments and baking temperatures as the King Arthur Sir Lancelot flour.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 11:58:52 PM by toddster63 »