Author Topic: Humidity  (Read 1100 times)

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Offline Tonysappy

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Humidity
« on: June 01, 2012, 01:00:51 AM »
Hey guys!!  For anyone up here in the north east, you know it's been pretty humid lately.  I was wondering if any of you have been, or in the past, have experienced problems with your dough  during these humid summer months.  To be quite honest,  I really don't know much about the "science" involved in making dough.   I make my dough by feel and test it that way based on results.   I know Most of the best Neapolitan places up here use regular yeast and not starters.  I just wanted to see if I could pick any of your brains a bit on the fermenting process.  I usually do a 60% hydration, then ball, then let sit for a few hours, then into the fridge.  Is it really neccesary to wait 2 or three days?  Also, It seems odd to me for letting it rise in bulk--and then--balling it.  By balling it, aren't you just taking away it's rise?    Anyway, like I said--I'm not a science guy.  If any of you have some tips, insights--or good reading material on it, I'd love to try it out.   Thanks


Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Humidity
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2012, 09:06:32 AM »
Tony;
The fermentation process doesn't stop when you ball the dough, it will continue to ferment for quite some time. You will get different end product flavors depending upon the temperature at which the dough is fermented, and the time it is allowed to ferment, so if you ferment the dough at room temperature (warm) you will get one flavor, and if you allow the dough to ferment in the fridge you will get a different flavor. The longer you allow the dough to ferment, the more intense/stronger the fermentation flavor will be. Excessive fermentation can result in an acidic or sour taste, but remember, some people like this flavor, so it isn't wrong, it's just different. Experiment to see which you personally like. My preference is to not ferment the dough prior to cold fermenting as the decreased density of the dough can make it more difficult to manage in the fridge as it is more difficult to cool down uniformly, so if I am cold fermenting, I just go directly from the mixer to the dough ball and then straight to the fridge, but this is just me, again, experiment to see what works best for you and what you like. Remember, you can eat your mistakes, so in this case, the trip can be as much fun as the destination. Experiment and learn, but most of all, remember to have fun doing it!
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Humidity
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2012, 11:32:31 AM »
Also, It seems odd to me for letting it rise in bulk--and then--balling it.  By balling it, aren't you just taking away it's rise?   

Tony, are you asking if you do a bulk rise and then ball the dough, do you collapse or otherwise undo the rise achieved in bulk?

If so, I would share that I have had my best results with 24 hours bulk followed by 24 hours in balls. I tailor my starter quantity such that the dough is only begining to show signs of activity after 24 hours. When I ball my dough after 24 hours of bulk, it has hardly risen at all.

I'm using SD, your results may be different. As Tom noted, you have to experiment.

CL
Pizza is not bread.

buceriasdon

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Re: Humidity
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2012, 11:54:18 AM »
Tony, As Craig and Tom have pointed out experimentation will be your best guide as there a number of ways to ferment pizza dough. As to your question about humidity, where I am located the last two weeks it has become quite humid and I have noticed, since I make dough every day, that my dough mass is much more sticky than before due I'm sure to water absorbtion in my flour. Are you having a very sticky dough that is difficult to work with?  Some might cut back a few percent on the water ratio but I am used to a very sticky dough so I won't be changing the bakers percent. I ball right after mixing, balls into oiled plastic containers and into the fridge.
Don
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 11:56:52 AM by buceriasdon »

Offline Tonysappy

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Re: Humidity
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2012, 12:34:27 PM »
Craig/Tom/ Don------Thank you guys for your responses.   I having been reading this site for quite some time now, but never really interact, and I think the help you show others is priceless.  You are good guys---so thank you.

    Truth is,   I work in Neopolitan pizza joint here in Brooklyn (craig--you actually came in one night--and I was not working--sorry I missed you).  My boss is on this site regularly--You know who he is--he has a similar story as mine.    I use to work on wall street --but after I got laid off I have surrounded myself in Neopolitan pizza in hopes of soon opening up my own place.  With some of my severence money from my job, I went out and bought a forno Bravo oven for the back yard, but that wasn't enough for me.     Just from  hitting the pavement  and knocking on doors of Neapolitan places---I have was able to apprentice with some of the best mentors.  I have takin the class in New Jersey, given by Roberto.  And now I am working on a Stefano Ferrara oven every night, and have mastered   working 3-4 pies in the oven at a time.     However--it's the dough that still gives me sleepless nights.   

   Like I said---I really want to emerse myself within the science of the dough.  It's just in my nature to question everything, so, rather than just following a recipe--I like to go on further and ask the what, where and Why's.  I was just out there asking for more imput, and I think the world of you guys  for how dedicated to this site and to pizza you are. I would really appreciate if you guys could reccomend any reading materials for me, so that I can better understand what is really going on here.  Thank you again.  And hopefully we can chat more.

Anthony  from Brooklyn

Offline bakeshack

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Re: Humidity
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2012, 01:15:55 PM »
Anthony, here is a great material especially for commercial applications -

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B007Q2901K/?tag=pizzamaking-20

I admire you for actually doing something to pursue your dream.  Btw, which pizzeria do you work at?  PG's?  I'll be making a trip there in August and I would love to go to your pizzeria and try it. 

Marlon

Offline Tonysappy

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Re: Humidity
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2012, 01:23:57 PM »
Marlon,

  Thank you for the material.  I am going to take a look at it now.   Yes-- you are correct--  That is where I work.   I have learned a tremendous amount and couldn't ask for a better situation.  It has been invaluable.  PLEASE let me know when you are comming into town and we would love to have you over at the place.  That gioes for anyone else reading this.  It's obvious that if you are on this site, you are serious about Pizza, and It's a wonderful pizza talking atmosphere!!

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Humidity
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2012, 01:30:20 PM »
I don't know a lot about using baker's yeast or cold fermentation, notwithstanding I'm happy to help where I can.


CL
Pizza is not bread.

Offline bakeshack

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Re: Humidity
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2012, 01:32:06 PM »
Thanks!  I will definitely let you know once I have my schedule down.  Aside from PM.com, I do not meet a lot of people here in SoCal who can relate to me so this site is really a treasure.  :)

Marlon

Offline Tonysappy

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Re: Humidity
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2012, 05:47:24 PM »
Thanks Guys.   This really is a great site.  Craig, I totally understand your point and your method of RT bulking has all to do with your starter.  In my mind, and In my experience, If you are using, bakers yeast, or , using a refrigerator,  I dunno if the bulk rising is totally necessary.  Does anyone have any thoughts on that?

Marlon, Don  After u take your dough out of the mixer, and ball it, what is usually your averegae ferment time in the Fridge???


Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: Humidity
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2012, 06:15:31 PM »
Tonysappy

I most often do 3 day cold ferments. I mix my dough with cool/cold water, and I just give the dough about a half hour at room temp after mixing. At that point I ball and place doughs in individual plastic contains for their rest in cold storage. The day I want to use my doughs, I will remove them from the fridge in plenty of time for them to warm and rise. My doughs show very little if any rise in the fridge (I keep my fridge very cold) but they do rise as they warm. The trick is to hit the right timing for the current room temp.

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: Humidity
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2012, 06:25:56 PM »
BTW, it should be noted that time and temperature regulate fermentation. I don't think humidity really plays a part, other than the obvious fact that is is usually hot when it is humid. I don't believe that a dough reacts to a 40% humidity any different then it reacts to a 60% humidity. But it sure does react differently between a temp of 40 degrees and a temp of 60 degrees.

Offline bakeshack

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Re: Humidity
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2012, 06:44:20 PM »
Thanks Guys.   This really is a great site.  Craig, I totally understand your point and your method of RT bulking has all to do with your starter.  In my mind, and In my experience, If you are using, bakers yeast, or , using a refrigerator,  I dunno if the bulk rising is totally necessary.  Does anyone have any thoughts on that?

Marlon, Don  After u take your dough out of the mixer, and ball it, what is usually your averegae ferment time in the Fridge???

For my NP pies, I have never tried a CF.  It has always been done at RT between 60-65F.  I have played around with long bulk (24-36 hrs) and short bulk or rest (1 hr) with long balled rise (24-40 hrs) with great results. 

I have only done CF with my NY-style pies. I usually just let it develop for 2 hrs in bulk while doing stretch and folds then ball and CF between 40-60 hrs.

Marlon