Author Topic: Dream come true  (Read 16348 times)

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Offline Fourlix

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Re: Dream come true
« Reply #80 on: June 17, 2012, 02:46:20 PM »
Forno Bravo makes an oven with a gas assist that you should at least have a look at. You can buy their oven as a kit, and add gas later if you want to.
      I built my own backyard oven 10 years ago, and opened a restaurant almost 2 years ago with a wood fired oven purchased on ebay, a MAM 505.  At commercial volume soot is a big problem. Running a WFO in a commercial setting is also difficult considering the workforce, so consistency is another big problem.
     I converted it to gas with an Avanzini burner, which is the same burner that Forno Bravo uses.  Because I didn't have a Forno Bravo, they wouldn't sell me their burner, so I had to go to the source in Italy and buy it direct.     Bottom line for commercial use is that the Avanzini gas burner is cleaner, easier and cheaper to run, both in labor and fuel costs, and the pizza is much more consistent.   I like it better, so do my customers, and I would never go back to all wood in a commercial situation.  We still throw a small oak log in for a little smoke and ambiance.   
     Now I started a regular shitstorm on here last month saying such blasphemous things.  But I have been down this road, and had no one else anywhere who could give me the side by side comparison of running a WFO vs the same oven converted to Gas.  I also think the quality of the gas burner itself has a lot to do with the success of my conversion, as this is not a BBQ burner, but a flame thrower of a burner that covers the ceiling of the oven, radiating down onto the floor. 
    Here is the thread.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18460.0.html
It is ugly, and full of insults.  If you are truly PIEOUS, you may not want to partake of such blasphemy, but at least you will know.   Great luck to you, I will be in town for the Formula I race in November, we will look you up. 


Offline jak123

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Re: Dream come true
« Reply #81 on: June 17, 2012, 03:42:35 PM »
Thanks Fourlix, I am PIEOUS, not PIOUS....nothing could offend me accept for chain pizza.

Offline jak123

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Re: Dream come true
« Reply #82 on: June 25, 2012, 08:56:04 PM »
Pretty bummed, they(the fire dept) are making me put a type 1 hood with fire suppression over my oven.

Offline Fourlix

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Re: Dream come true
« Reply #83 on: June 26, 2012, 10:41:05 AM »
Oh,,,, that sucks!    "Grease laden vapors"  is the operative word.  You can make a strong case,,,but greasing a palm may be the only recourse....I feel your pain. 

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Dream come true
« Reply #84 on: June 26, 2012, 10:52:06 AM »
Show them pics of other restaurants with WFO's that do not have hoods (like all of them).

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Dream come true
« Reply #85 on: June 26, 2012, 04:48:42 PM »
Show them pics of other restaurants with WFO's that do not have hoods (like all of them).

I can only think of one that I have ever been to with a hood - Tony's in SF/North Beach.

Pizza is not bread.

Offline jak123

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Re: Dream come true
« Reply #86 on: June 26, 2012, 09:07:52 PM »
I'm pretty sure they made Jay Jerrier at Il Cane Rosso put in a hood.

It's not even the "grease laden vapors." Our fire code follows the 2009 IFC and it states that all "solid fuel" cooking devices must have a type 1 hood. Somehow, others are getting away with it, but not me. I'm not giving up, but it doesn't look good.

I could go the gas route for inspection and then use wood, but i would be screwed by a later "pop in" inspection.

Offline pizza dr

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Re: Dream come true
« Reply #87 on: July 04, 2012, 02:18:10 AM »
You've run into a "local" that has no idea what he's talking about and is probably unwilling to rethink the situation fearing the worse (he's wrong)

I run a small business that has more regulations than a resto ever dreamed of having. Every now and again we will run into someone that is trying to "make a statement" just to make a statement, if you catch my drift.  I always try to find out who is at the top of that inspectors chain of command and invariably it will be someone that either I know personally ( its a small town) or one of my peeps will know.  Give them a call personally and explain the situation.  More often than not that issue will be laid to rest or a reasonable solution can be obtained. But you have to start with the top of the food chain.

Good luck

Scot

Offline othafa9

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Re: Dream come true
« Reply #88 on: July 04, 2012, 08:43:06 PM »
If it makes any difference I have worked with Stefano Ferrara, Acunto, Forno Napoletano, and Woodstone Ovens in making Neapolitan Pizza.  For me I did not see much difference between the Acunto and The Ferrara.  I did not particularly like the Forno Napoletano, but I can not explain why.  It is the one I spent the least amount of time with.  It definately for me felt different than the Acunto/Ferrara....but I was not around it long enough to be able to explain it.  The Woodstone I hated.  AND it was by far the most expensive I believe.  My recomendation is an Acunto or Ferrara...but also those are the 2 I've worked with the most so maybe I'm biased.

Also coming to Austin soon is Las Vegas' Due Forni.

Offline Jraducha

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Re: Dream come true
« Reply #89 on: July 05, 2012, 07:48:35 PM »
I am so excited to see your place come together! What a journey!!!


Offline thezaman

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Re: Dream come true
« Reply #90 on: July 08, 2012, 11:32:57 AM »
 fourlix,  i was in Naples in march and sat down and talked with antimo caputo about wood vs gas ovens. his comment was there was no difference in taste side by side. he thought gas dried the pizza out some,and his preference was electric which was able to hold high temperatures better than gas and recover faster.i have not had pizza cooked in gas at ultra high temperatures,but at low temperatures it doesn't come close.

Offline othafa9

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Re: Dream come true
« Reply #91 on: August 08, 2012, 11:30:27 AM »
I'd like to add that in my previous post where I recommended the Acunto or Ferrara ovens I should note, that my experience with the Forno Napoletano was very brief, and that I am sure it is a great oven, as good as the Ferrara.  Its just that I am more used to the Ferrara, so that is typically where I throw my recommendation.

Offline jak123

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Re: Dream come true
« Reply #92 on: December 08, 2012, 07:17:29 AM »
A brief update:

I've been MIA on the pizza forum for good reason....it takes a lot of effort to build and open a restaurant! We are getting close. From tearing out 3 layers of linoleum tile and glue to laying  and fixing the concrete substrate, tiling, pouring counters, picking granite, building tables, benches, painting furniture, reclaiming wood to use for picnic table (and trying to straighten that gnarly wood), to having fire marshals fail my unneeded hood system because the sheet metal guy decided to relocate the duct collar a few inches to the left to avoid a beam in the roof....it's taken almost double the time i anticipated...that which doesn't kill us makes us stronger....

I will say, operating a pizzeria has to be easier than building one! I've torn my bicep from lifting too many 80# sacks of concrete, lost approx 40# from working long hours and destroyed most of my wardrobe as all my clothes have become work clothes. But dont play that tiny violin for me....i'm having the time of my life and i havent even baked one pizza in my oven yet!

I'm vowing to serve something to a private gathering of friends next week....hopefully, it will be from the pizza oven, but if not, it will be from the Ole Hickory BBQ that i inherited when i bought the business.  I have pretty much everything i need...a gently used berkel bread slicer that i scored for $200 off craigslist and a 12" berkel deli slicer that i scored for $275....yeah, it would be nice to have some shiny new things that didnt require 4 hours of meticulous cleaning, but you know what, in the end, what's the difference?

One of the last things i did was to put toilets in my bathrooms....everyone who ever came to work with me asked if the bathrooms worked....i said no, sorry....knowing full well that i'm about to become a full time janitor, i didnt want cleaning toilets to be part of the buildout process....very smart move.

I have a dedicated dough room with its own HVAC (ok, its a 12ft by 6 ft room with a window unit), nice granite counters, some shelves and i cant wait to clean it up and start mixing dough with my hands (sore, tired hands)....

I'm getting the last few parts i need to finish my kegerator that i built from a chest freezer...it will house 4 craft beers and some white wine kegs....of course the red wine will be served at room temp.

i removed the old 6 burner vulcan range and replaced it with a single blodgett convection oven....still not sure how i will heat water to melt the curd or make a pastry cream for my banana cream pies, but, i'll figure it out. Will probably buy a single burner to help with those tasks and lean on the ovens for roasting instead of sauteing...

walk-in is filled with samples from vendors....

Have 25 doughboxes ready and waiting for balled dough....got the GI Metal perf peel and banjo peel....

I hired a chalk artist who has done a bang up job decorating my walls (all are chalk boards). He's doing our menus too.

I did make a pastrami at Pieous....it was, in a word, unbelievable....

hoping to get open before christmas. Thinking it may be a good time to cut my teeth when things slow down...

Anyways, wishing everyone a happy holiday season filled with PIEOUS'NESS....

Josh

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Dream come true
« Reply #93 on: December 08, 2012, 01:07:22 PM »
Glad to hear it is going well, the place looked great a couple weeks ago, I can only imagine how far you have come.  Are they still dicking around with the hood approval?

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Dream come true
« Reply #94 on: December 08, 2012, 01:13:35 PM »
I really hope it wasn't one of my union brothers who made the bone headed move to modify a UL listed piece of equipment.  Anybody doing commercial HVAC work should know better.
-Jeff

Offline jak123

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Re: Dream come true
« Reply #95 on: December 08, 2012, 01:54:52 PM »
what sucks is that this particular hood is sometimes sent without the collar attached, and the installer may move it to anywhere he so desires without losing the UL listing....of course, mine was already installed....we've got a work around/compromise, but yes Tom, still dicking around with the effing hood!

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Dream come true
« Reply #96 on: December 08, 2012, 02:22:47 PM »
What was the compromise if you don't mind me asking?  If possible I would build a plenum that covers both the original opening and the new one and then have the insulator wrap it with 3" of fire wrap right down to the hood like they will the rest of the duct.
-Jeff

Offline jak123

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Re: Dream come true
« Reply #97 on: December 08, 2012, 07:30:19 PM »
remove the cap from the ul listed collar and 45 into the newly made duct while capping the newly made collar....a wank if you ask me and probably a less effective way to get the heat/smoke out....but fireman knows best...

what makes me so mad is that this hood will have to run 24/7...and when i told mr fireman that, his answer was we only need to run it when we are operating the oven....so, when i inquired as to what should be done with the hot coals at the end of the night...he responded that they should be removed from the oven....and put where???? and when we lose power and the restauarnt fills with heat/smoke depending on the cycle of the fire, then what????

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Dream come true
« Reply #98 on: December 08, 2012, 09:47:09 PM »
I would bet the stack effect inside the building would send your smoke right up the duct even when the fan isn't running.  Even a single story building has more stack effect then you would think.  I just recently finished a basketball stadium where there was no room above the hoods to make the welds so my welder had to make them from the bottom through the inlet.  Even in hoods where there was a 30ft. horizontal run of duct before it finally turned up and went out the roof the stack effect sucked the welding fumes out of the building like a hoover. 
-Jeff

Offline jak123

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Re: Dream come true
« Reply #99 on: December 09, 2012, 06:30:46 AM »
man, i hope you are right.