Author Topic: Connecting a 380V 2 fase oven on 1 fase 220V at home  (Read 4215 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline The Dub Oracle

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 71
Connecting a 380V 2 fase oven on 1 fase 220V at home
« on: June 03, 2012, 08:19:22 AM »
First of all i will start to say that i am a electrician and this is only for people that know what they are doing with current.

I bought a pizza oven and i thought that it would work on 220V, but that whas not the case.
It whas a 2 fase oven ment for a 380 volt power connection.
I thought i could sent the oven straight away back to the store where i bought it, but i think i solved the problem.
You cant connect the oven on one fase only, it will melt the fuse because its 4KW, that will result in 18 amps.
This means that you will connect the 2 fases ( from both heat elements ) to one wire.
To solve this problem its also possible to connect the 2 fases to 2 differend groups of your electrical systhem.
This means 2 fuses and you have double power for your oven.
The only thing what must be done is to make 2 wires for the 2 fases of your oven, that you will plug into 2 differend places in your home.
You must be sure in connecting because the zero or nul (blue) must be connected correctly.
Also the 2 groups must have the same ground leak switch, 2 wont work because the oven sucks current out of this zero wire, what will result in a power differance.
A bit dificult for me to explain, but in that way you will have a ground leak.

I informed myself at a electronic forum, and they say it must work to.
I know its a big problem for the right oven, it seems to me they hold it back in some way.
I made myself a good electric oven, but its hard to find on the regular market a good oven, but its possible to make.
This connecting solves this, now you can connect a proffesional oven without the need to letting rebuild your fusebox for the 3 fase 380volts connection.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2012, 08:21:26 AM by The Dub Oracle »


Offline dmcavanagh

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1912
  • Location: Glenmont, NY
Re: Connecting a 380V 2 fase oven on 1 fase 220V at home
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2012, 08:54:52 AM »
Fascinating, but for me I'm afraid it would be shocking! :o

buceriasdon

  • Guest
Re: Connecting a 380V 2 fase oven on 1 fase 220V at home
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2012, 09:29:39 AM »
Wouldn't a stepup transformer be a better solution to converting 220V two phase to 380V three phase? I wouldn't be comfortable myself taking hot wires from two different house circuits and joining them together although I agree it can work.
Don

Offline The Dub Oracle

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 71
Re: Connecting a 380V 2 fase oven on 1 fase 220V at home
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2012, 10:24:39 AM »
Wouldn't a stepup transformer be a better solution to converting 220V two phase to 380V three phase? I wouldn't be comfortable myself taking hot wires from two different house circuits and joining them together although I agree it can work.
Don

You dont connect the 2 wires from the two groupes to one wire.
One wire from group 1 is for the first fase.
The second group is for fase 2.
Only the 2 blue wires from the 2 groups are connected together at the oven.

A fase transformer is out of the question, you dont need 380 Volts.
The 380 Volts are between the fases 1 2 3, not between the blue wire and the fase, thats 220Volts.

The oven has 2 heating elements, each one is connected to a differend fase on a 3 fase connection originally.
In this way the other element is just connected to a other group at your home.
You only must take care that you connect the blue wires together at the oven.

 

Offline The Dub Oracle

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 71
Re: Connecting a 380V 2 fase oven on 1 fase 220V at home
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2012, 10:51:45 AM »
Here are some shematics, i hope it becomes clearer.
You only must figger out witch sockets to use in your home for the two groups, and their must not be other great power consuming equipments on those groups.
The connections must run through the same earthleak switch to.

Tomorrow i will connect it in this way, than i can be shure if it works, and i dont see why not.

« Last Edit: June 03, 2012, 10:57:44 AM by The Dub Oracle »

Offline Bob1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 601
Re: Connecting a 380V 2 fase oven on 1 fase 220V at home
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2012, 11:36:31 AM »
I am a bit confused on some of the terminology being used and the possibility of different voltages in different countries, but physics work the same all over the globe.  Ovens that work on 220 american should be called single phase 220v because they derive there source from two hot 120 volt sources that combine send 220v to the load.  Two phase is an old antiquated system that was popular years ago which had a 90 degree out of phase relationship.  The bottom line is that any element (load) is a resistive source that stays the same no matter what the voltage applied is.  Because of this the current will drop in a direct linear relationship.  Without getting to technical the wattage ( heat ) is a direct relationship to the square of the current times the resistance.  I squared x R.  Bottom line is, if you cut the voltage feed in half you will only get about 25% of the heat.  

I may not understand what you meant about hooking it up to one phase and melting the breaker.  The current will not go up when you add less voltage because the resistance stays the same.  The current will be less.


Bob


Edit

Even in a three phase unit the applied voltage drop has the same effect. 
« Last Edit: June 03, 2012, 11:47:19 AM by Bob1 »

Offline The Dub Oracle

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 71
Re: Connecting a 380V 2 fase oven on 1 fase 220V at home
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2012, 01:34:04 PM »
I am a bit confused on some of the terminology being used and the possibility of different voltages in different countries, but physics work the same all over the globe.  Ovens that work on 220 american should be called single phase 220v because they derive there source from two hot 120 volt sources that combine send 220v to the load.  Two phase is an old antiquated system that was popular years ago which had a 90 degree out of phase relationship.  The bottom line is that any element (load) is a resistive source that stays the same no matter what the voltage applied is.  Because of this the current will drop in a direct linear relationship.  Without getting to technical the wattage ( heat ) is a direct relationship to the square of the current times the resistance.  I squared x R.  Bottom line is, if you cut the voltage feed in half you will only get about 25% of the heat.  

I may not understand what you meant about hooking it up to one phase and melting the breaker.  The current will not go up when you add less voltage because the resistance stays the same.  The current will be less.


Bob


Edit

Even in a three phase unit the applied voltage drop has the same effect.  


My technical english is poor in using the right words, you are right.
So maybe i understand you not that good.
But you are right about the voltage in relation to resistance.
I live in Holland, here we have 220volts, and 3 fase is in that way 380.
This oven is ment for 220/380, the elements are both around 20 ohm. (in the states it must be 10 ohms)
If you buy a oven in the states you can do this trick also with lower voltage and more amps, same power (P=U*I).
The wireing is as thick as here but with a lower voltage you can send more amps through it.
The colour code of electric wire is also some differend aroud here, or there.

It has noting to with fase differance 120 or 180 degrees by the way, i know what you mean.
Both elements must have 220 volts, 380 volts is between fases.
I measured my oven with a good ohm meter, internaly it must be connected in the way i drawed.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2012, 01:42:46 PM by The Dub Oracle »

Offline Bob1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 601
Re: Connecting a 380V 2 fase oven on 1 fase 220V at home
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2012, 02:16:50 PM »
Okay,
I think I understand a bit more now.  You are not lowering the voltage.  It is a 3phase 380v wye system with 220v to ground.  The way it is supposed to work is to have 220 across each element, and the ends of the elements are tied together internally (wye).  You want to to supply 220v to each element but by using house voltage that is probably an A & B single phase (house type).  You will then separate the elements and add a neutral to get 220 across each element.  Is that correct? 

Offline The Dub Oracle

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 71
Re: Connecting a 380V 2 fase oven on 1 fase 220V at home
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2012, 03:02:42 PM »
Okay,
I think I understand a bit more now.  You are not lowering the voltage.  It is a 3phase 380v wye system with 220v to ground.  The way it is supposed to work is to have 220 across each element, and the ends of the elements are tied together internally (wye).  You want to to supply 220v to each element but by using house voltage that is probably an A & B single phase (house type).  You will then separate the elements and add a neutral to get 220 across each element.  Is that correct? 

That is about it.
But the blue wires will come together at the oven.
Its also possible to seperate them internally in the oven, then you wil have 2 blue wires.
In that way you can connect bot elements also on a group with a other groundleak.
Its some more difficult to explain, but otherwise the other group will suck current away from the other group and the groundleak divice will measure that there is a leak and will turn of the group.
Maybe this picture will explain it more for you.

 

Offline The Dub Oracle

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 71
Re: Connecting a 380V 2 fase oven on 1 fase 220V at home
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2012, 04:16:03 PM »
Hahaha, i have just dicovered with checking the groups that our induction stove is also connected in this way by other electriens.
Very funny, this works for sure.
Just see, its normal, hahah.
Re-inventing the wheel :-D  
« Last Edit: June 03, 2012, 04:22:48 PM by The Dub Oracle »


Offline The Dub Oracle

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 71
Re: Connecting a 380V 2 fase oven on 1 fase 220V at home
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2012, 10:00:23 AM »
Today i connected my oven, i marked both connectors so that always is sure what hot wire is and the blue.
And it just worked fine!!
It works people !!!.It works people !!!.It works people !!!.It works people !!!.It works people !!!.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2012, 10:02:17 AM by The Dub Oracle »

Offline Bob1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 601
Re: Connecting a 380V 2 fase oven on 1 fase 220V at home
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2012, 03:17:16 PM »
Glad to hear it worked for you.  I was out of town for a day and just got back.  Sorry I did not get back to you

Offline The Dub Oracle

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 71
Re: Connecting a 380V 2 fase oven on 1 fase 220V at home
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2012, 09:40:37 AM »
This is how the connection looks.

« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 08:31:25 AM by The Dub Oracle »


 

pizzapan