Burning pizzas :(

[Tannerwooden]

Any advice anyone?

I'm making pies that I really like @ around 650 degrees.  I really want to have the 900+ pie under my belt though.  Here's my problem:

THEY ALWAYS BURN.

I'm using a modified oven (so it can go as hot as I want) with a 5/8" thick pizza stone.  I have tried putting the stone on the very top and next to the top rack and baking from the bottom.  I have also tried using the broiler, both from the second I put the pizza in to halfway through to....well, you name it, I've tried it.

What always happens is that the pizza burns before getting fully cooked, usually on the bottom.  So, I either pull out a soggy pizza or a black bottomed or black topped pizza.  I've tried really high hydrations, where the problem seems to be that the air inside the oven just can't suck all that moisture out of the dough quick enough, so, again:  soggy pizza.  I tried putting up a post titled:  "How to get rid of the water."  We all know what a great success Mr. Spangler made that post.

I even thought that post had solved my problems, but I still can't make that elusive, crispy on the outside, light as air on the inside crust.  Any thoughts or ideas?

Thanks!

[shuboyje]

Since nobody has responded, I'll chime in.

I notice you are posting this in the New York Style section.  Regardless of some claims made about coal ovens, New York style pizza is not made at 900F.  You also state you are looking for a crisp and chewy pie.  Those aren't really terms you will find used to describe a pizza cooked at 900F.  The soupy soggy pies that you are getting before the burning starts are probably much closer to the type of pizza you can expect cooked at those temps.

Your oven setup is another wild card.  Odds are your stone is more conductive then firrebrick, so 900 in your oven is "hotter" then 900 in a wood fired oven.  For that reason I would focus on bake time, not temperature.  A 900F pie in a wood fired oven will cook in between 40-60 seconds.  It's not going to be an easy task in a modified home oven, many have tried and most have failed, but if you can generate enough top heat to cook the pie in 40-60 seconds you should be good to go.

[pizzaneer]

Have you tried adding another stone on top?  If your oven mod can really kick out that much heat, no point in using the broiler.  Set another stone on the next rack up, let them heat up to target temp, and see how it goes. 

At those temps, you want to top LIGHTLY.

[Tscarborough]

Most NY style pies (run by NY guys) around here (Austin) run the oven at 550-600 and cook 18" pies for 6-8 minutes.  Home Slice, Yaghi's, East Side pies, look 'em up and decide for yourself if they are New York pies.

[Tannerwooden]

Hey, thanks so much for responding.  Already getting some great ideas.  A little clarification:

"Regardless of some claims made about coal ovens, New York style pizza is not made at 900F."  So I was constantly working towards pizza perfection and making VERY slow strides until I found Varasano's website.  Then, a few months later I found this website.  I make pizza, oh, say once a month.  I've gone through phases where my family get's pretty sick and tired of eating it every week though.   

Anyways, I got the understanding that 900F is the target from Jeff (what he indicates is the temp Patsy's uses), and the idea that a light as air on the inside, crispy on the outside pie is possible.  I got my stone more than a decade ago, so I'm not sure what it is.  Very interesting about the stone cooking hotter than a fired oven.  Now I'm wondering if I should try a different stone where the oven environment could be hotter while the stone stays cooler?  Could you comment on this please?

I'm currently baking a 15" pie @ 650F with a 69% hydration dough using Gold Medal bread flour.  I've tried 00 but I really didn't see all that much difference in how it bakes other than that it only browns well at temps over 600F.

Thanks pizzaneer for the second stone suggestion.  I will definitely try.  I currently use a 16" round.  I've been thinking for a while of getting a big, oven filling rectangular stone for when i bake multiple loaves of bread.  Think that would work ok for a top stone?

Thanks again so much guys!

Tanner

[pizzaneer]

I've gone through phases where my family get's pretty sick and tired of eating it every week though.   

Thanks pizzaneer for the second stone suggestion.  I will definitely try.  I currently use a 16" round.  I've been thinking for a while of getting a big, oven filling rectangular stone for when i bake multiple loaves of bread.  Think that would work ok for a top stone?

Thanks again so much guys!

Tanner

The dimensions of the stone on top won't really affect your bake unless you have top-down heating, in which case, swap them.

Have you considered a LBE - this has the characteristic cooler stone and high top heat you asked about.  As well as not heating up your kitchen during the summer, it's one cool gadget to play with.  I make all kinds of stuff on mine - not just pizza: steaks, kebabs, potatoes, you name it.  It's a mini-EarthStone.

[shuboyje]

Anyways, I got the understanding that 900F is the target from Jeff (what he indicates is the temp Patsy's uses), and the idea that a light as air on the inside, crispy on the outside pie is possible.  I got my stone more than a decade ago, so I'm not sure what it is.  Very interesting about the stone cooking hotter than a fired oven.  Now I'm wondering if I should try a different stone where the oven environment could be hotter while the stone stays cooler?  Could you comment on this please?

Jeff also has Patsy's bake time listed at 3 minutes.  That is much more telling than any temperature, claimed or actual.

Now that we are going a bit more in depth let me clarify a bit on the stone.  Temperature is temperature, 900F on one stone is no hotter then another, which is why I used the quotes.  The difference is the stones conductivity.  A more conductive stone will transfer more heat to the pie at a given temperature in a given time period so a 900F pizza stone may cook a pizza much faster then a 900F firebrick oven floor depending on the materials the two are made of.  Hope that explains why I said it cooks hotter.

Before changing stones or oven configurations you should post what you are currently using and what type of pizza you are trying to make.  There are some users here who will have lots of advice on the way to setup your oven to do it IF it can be feasibly safely done.
 

I'm currently baking a 15" pie @ 650F with a 69% hydration dough using Gold Medal bread flour.  I've tried 00 but I really didn't see all that much difference in how it bakes other than that it only browns well at temps over 600F.

Sounds pretty similar to how I cook New York style in my wood fired oven:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18455.msg179499.html#msg179499