Author Topic: Food Detectives Prove NY Water Matters in NY Pizza  (Read 15529 times)

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Offline November

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Re: Food Detectives Prove NY Water Matters in NY Pizza
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2011, 08:22:43 PM »
I miss our friend november!          

Well, you could always search through my past posts in fond remembrance.  :)

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4517.msg38039.html#msg38039


Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Food Detectives Prove NY Water Matters in NY Pizza
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2012, 01:18:25 AM »
All this talk of water...

I've made eight pizzas worth of dough with this Jana brand.  Haven't eaten any yet.

Just tasted it against my (filtered) tap water.  I prefered my tap-water  ::)

Jana had a slight smell, definitely more minerals.  We'll see how the pizzas turn out.

I know this is an old thread but how did the dough with Jana turn out?

Offline Tatoosh

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Re: Food Detectives Prove NY Water Matters in NY Pizza
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2012, 04:13:04 AM »
A good double blind test with an array of tasters would be the ideal.  Single variable being the water, all doughs prepared identically otherwise.  And an array of tests done where only crusts are evaluated, then crusts with sauce and cheese. Then breaking down the tasters into a variety of groups, pizza aficionados, and so forth in order that you could see if some groups are more sensitive to differences than others.  Even checking to see if the tasters fall in the super, regular, limited taster groups would be good data.  I am guessing that some commercial outfits have done this already, but are holding onto that info for their own advantage (if any). 
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Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Food Detectives Prove NY Water Matters in NY Pizza
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2012, 09:26:31 AM »
Even though there are different mineral contents of different waters, I highly doubt water makes a big difference in pizza taste.  I want to do test on this too.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Food Detectives Prove NY Water Matters in NY Pizza
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2012, 03:06:54 PM »
Of all the things one could focus on to make better pizza, I would have to think this must rank dead last (or pretty close to it) in value.

CL
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Offline pizzaneer

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Re: Food Detectives Prove NY Water Matters in NY Pizza
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2012, 03:18:18 PM »
I'm not too sure about that.  About the difference in taste? Yes, it's going to be negligible.  But I do think that different mineral concentrations in varying waters will impact such factors as yeast development, rise time and thus gluten development.  While I was a member of a breadmaking forum, one member from NM went through a tortuous process of trying to figure out why his dough did not rise.  Eventually, the problem was identified as lack of minerals in his RO drinking water supply.  Possibly an isolated, extreme case, but it still makes me think that some development interaction with yeast can be attributed to the chemical makeup of the water.

I really don't think a blind taste test could pick up this difference.  The difference would have to be in the crust's spring, chewiness and (to a small degree) flavor.  I don't think some TV-show kitchen would be as rigid on the parameters as anyone here. 

It does seem to be an experiment worth trying, if anyone (points @ Pete-zza) is interested in volunteering their effort.



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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Food Detectives Prove NY Water Matters in NY Pizza
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2012, 03:41:31 PM »
I'm not too sure about that.  About the difference in taste? Yes, it's going to be negligible.  But I do think that different mineral concentrations in varying waters will impact such factors as yeast development, rise time and thus gluten development.  While I was a member of a breadmaking forum, one member from NM went through a tortuous process of trying to figure out why his dough did not rise.  Eventually, the problem was identified as lack of minerals in his RO drinking water supply.  Possibly an isolated, extreme case, but it still makes me think that some development interaction with yeast can be attributed to the chemical makeup of the water.

I could be wrong, and I stand to be corrected. Having said that is is VERY difficult for me to believe RO water was the actual cause of a rising problem. Lots of people, myself included, all the way up to Chris Bianco use RO water without any problem at all. Almost by definition that means IF RO water was a factor, it was not the sole factor responsible for the lack of rise and there had to be at least one other unknown factor, that is in play for almost nobody else, affecting that person.

When it comes to rise time, IF the type/mineral content of water does have an effect, it is so much less important than other factors such as the quantity and type of yeast introduced and the temperature, I just don't see how it could be meaningful.

CL
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Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Food Detectives Prove NY Water Matters in NY Pizza
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2012, 04:38:11 PM »
I'm not as advanced in pizza making as many of you are here and used to hear that water makes the difference in terms of pizza in NY being so good.  I used to believe it.  But now I'm not sure.   It could be or might not be.  But what pizzaneer makes sense too though about mineral content and how that could effect things.  The tap water in my city is pretty good and works for pizza just fine but I want to make pizza with different water brands and my city water as well and compare. I'm not making pizza any time soon but when I do I will compare. In other words I have no idea if it makes a difference but I would be inclined to think not but I'm open to test this out. I have to read all the old post and see what some say. 

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Food Detectives Prove NY Water Matters in NY Pizza
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2012, 05:24:22 PM »
The tap water in my city is pretty good and works for pizza just fine but I want to make pizza with different water brands and my city water as well and compare. I'm not making pizza any time soon but when I do I will compare. In other words I have no idea if it makes a difference but I would be inclined to think not but I'm open to test this out.

Do you think you can measure your ingredients accurately enough, keep the fermentation temperature accurate enough, keep the oven and stone temperature accurate enough, etc. to test the effect of a difference as small as 180ppm (.0000018) in the water? You probably weigh your ingredients out with 0.1g resolution. Your resolution on temperature is probably +/- 5F - maybe a lot more than that. How would you rule out measurement or control error as the cause of any differences observed? Even if you could, how would you quantitatively measure the results?

My theory on why pizza is better in NYC is because there is a higher proportion of operators that know what they are doing in NYC. This is why I suggested that a focus on just about any other aspect of pizza making is more likely to improve your pizza than worrying about the water.

Here is another thought - bad pizza in NYC is no better than bad pizza anyplace else. Shouldn't it be if NYC water makes better pizza?
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Offline pizzaneer

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Re: Food Detectives Prove NY Water Matters in NY Pizza
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2012, 05:49:43 PM »
Well, let's get right to the heart of it, and leave NY alone.  Does anyone have any data on Naples tap water - and their historical water sources?

I'm looking at salt percentages in the water as a factor.  That would be the calcium and magnesium.  There are other trace minerals, but in the amounts needed to affect yeast (ischia starter) retardation and development, I can't see them having an impact.

I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Food Detectives Prove NY Water Matters in NY Pizza
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2012, 06:09:07 PM »
Brian,

See Reply 7, including the last paragraph, at
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3457.msg29422/topicseen.html#msg29422.

Peter


 

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