Author Topic: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil  (Read 2303 times)

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Offline waynesize

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2014, 08:54:20 PM »
My attempt at this one (actually, without the butter flavored Crisco). I went with a low cost shot for the first attempt. I wanted to run through the workflow, to see how it would go. I think, had I used better ingredients, this would have been a knockout! Thanks, Nate. 


Offline pythonic

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2014, 08:59:42 PM »
I made this pie last night as one of 5 styles for 8 guests.  It was a complete home run!  It was my first Deep Dish attempt, so the recipe must be pretty bullet proof.  I used the recipe in the first post.  I will only note the differences in process.

I prepared a double batch of the dough in my KA with the flat beater bar.  All dry ingredients in the bowl (used AP flour).  IDY dissolved in warm water.  KA on speed one and two.  I drizzled the oil mixture down the side of the bowl.  The KA picked it up and the flour became like lumped cornmeal.  I then drizzled the water onto the flour as the KA ran.  The dough came together perfectly.  I then hand kneaded it for a minute or so.  I let it room rise in a warm kitchen (mid 70's) for around 5 hours in a covered plastic storage container.  It more than doubled in that time and took the lid off the container.

I divided the dough, Butter Crisco'd the 9in pan and pressed the dough out and in the pan.  Some parts of the bottom seemed thin but were ok when baked.  I ran the dough all the way up the 2 inch sides.

Internals were shredded  Supremo Italiano Prov/Motz blend, home made fennel sausage, Mama Isabella's pepperoni a few red onion slices and some Jalapeno pepper slices.  Sauce was about 18 to 20 oz of 6in1.  The 28 oz 6in1 received 1/2 tsp of basil, 1/2 tsp oregano, 1/2 tsp salt, 3/4 tsp sugar.

Baking was in a preheated 450 degree oven for a total of 33 minutes.  First 10 minutes on a screen on my stone.  Then to the top rack as another pizza went on the stone.  With about 13 minutes to go I draped tin foil over the top of the pie to prevent excessive browning of the crust.

After removal from the oven I let it sit for 10 minutes.  It cut perfectly.  No excessive water.  I removed the perfect first slice... then dropped it.  Pix below.

My guests comments were: "flakey, like a biscuit,  this is perfect!"

My thanks to pythonic for this recipe and work flow.  This is a winner.  I have my "go to" deep dish recipe.

BTW, as an experiment I used the other part of the dough to make a normal "flat" pizza.  I baked it on the stone at 500 degrees.  It was terrible.  The pizza was waterlogged and the crust soggy, saggy and a mess.

Great job on your deep dish moose.  I've only gotten very positive reviews with this dough and it sure sounds like you did too.

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline pythonic

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2014, 09:01:08 PM »
My attempt at this one (actually, without the butter flavored Crisco). I went with a low cost shot for the first attempt. I wanted to run through the workflow, to see how it would go. I think, had I used better ingredients, this would have been a knockout! Thanks, Nate.

Is it Wayne?  Crust looks great.  Glad you really liked this.  Now get some good cheese and tomatoes and you'll be turning some heads.

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline waynesize

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2014, 09:12:08 PM »
Nate, I could not agree more. The crust was really good. My handling of the dough might have been better, subsequent attempts should improve that.  A step up on the input, will make a big difference in the output. This was pretty darn good, given my approach. I sent some over to my neighbor, and he loved it. Next one will be better. I think I got lucky with my picture. It really made it look good. :D

Wayne

Offline pythonic

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2014, 09:15:20 PM »
Nate, I could not agree more. The crust was really good. My handling of the dough might have been better, subsequent attempts should improve that.  A step up on the input, will make a big difference in the output. This was pretty darn good, given my approach. I sent some over to my neighbor, and he loved it. Next one will be better. I think I got lucky with my picture. It really made it look good. :D

Wayne

Your technique and final product will get better the more you make these.  The amount of cheese, the amount of tomatoes you use as well as the placement.  Once you find that perfect balance you will be amazed how good it can get. 

Nate

If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline pythonic

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I want to make this same dough but for my 14 inch pan.  Anyone know the new weights?

Peter,

Any ideas on how much flour I need?  Is their just an equation I can use for larger diameter?

Nate
« Last Edit: March 14, 2014, 11:04:13 AM by pythonic »
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline derricktung

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Nate,

Looks like you've got quite the deep dish recipe going on here!  Looking forward to giving this one a whirl eventually... if I ever fall off my Neapolitan kick.  =)

Offline pythonic

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Nate,

Looks like you've got quite the deep dish recipe going on here!  Looking forward to giving this one a whirl eventually... if I ever fall off my Neapolitan kick.  =)

Thanks Derrick.  I have to mix up my styles or I think I would get sick of pizza.

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline pythonic

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Last nights.  Dropped total flour to 175g, water to 45% and upped oil to 24%.  No semolina this time and I didn't think the taste was as good.

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline biondanonima

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Pythonic, I made my first deep-dish last night and I used your oil-first technique - I knew I had read it somewhere on this forum but I couldn't recall where.  But anyway, thank you!  My crust turned out beautifully (even though I underbaked it) and now that I've found this thread again I'm sure it will be even better next time!  I didn't have butter flavored Crisco but I may give that a go next time.  Great tips - thank you for sharing!


Offline pythonic

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Pythonic, I made my first deep-dish last night and I used your oil-first technique - I knew I had read it somewhere on this forum but I couldn't recall where.  But anyway, thank you!  My crust turned out beautifully (even though I underbaked it) and now that I've found this thread again I'm sure it will be even better next time!  I didn't have butter flavored Crisco but I may give that a go next time.  Great tips - thank you for sharing!

You're welcome.  Try it with the crisco on the pan next time.  Makes a big difference.

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Shortening is used for Chicago style deep-dish pizzas while oil is used for Pizza Hut style pizzas. The biggest benefit to using a solid fat in the pan such as margarine, butter, shortening (Crisco/Butter Flavored Crisco, my personal favorite too) is that the dough really clings to the stuff making it a snap to pull the dough up the sides of the pan without the need to continually chase the dough pulling it back up after it slides back down into the bottom of the pan. Texturally, oil in the pan gives the finished crust an oily/fried appearance and feel while the solid fats impart a dry appearance to the crust , much like what we normally see on the sides and bottom of a loaf of store bought white pan bread. To apply the solid fat to the pan you can either brush or wipe it in using a paper towel or you can melt it and brush it in for a more uniform application. In a commercial setting we almost always melt or at least soften the fat and then brush it into the pans, but when I make deep-dish pizzas at home I always apply it right from the can using a piece of paper towel to wipe it around in the pan, makes clean up a little easier, just toss the paper towel in the trash, no need to wash the fat out of a pastry brush.
By the way, that is one VERY GOOD looking pizza!
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Online drmatt357

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"Here is the process.   I use a bowl, whisk for dry ingredients and a spoon.   Mix all dry ingredients minus the yeast.  Add oil and mix in halfway with spoon then add in the water.  Mix half way again and next sprinkle in the yeast.  Mix again with your spoon until it all comes together."



Thanks for this. Here's my question. The part where it says "Mix in halfway". How about a visual here. Some dry flour and some clumped with oil?

Reason I ask is I made this today and when I put the oil in first, I used a fork and worked the oil into the flour where the flour was fully saturated with oil. Then added water.  The end product was a little hard, not flaky like you describe.

Online drmatt357

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I tried again as I realized I left out the sugar and salt. Was great. I used 10% Semolina and was a little too bready. I think I'll go back to 20%.

Offline Tampa

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I've got to unsubscribe to this thread, those pictures... :drool:
Dave

Offline Chicago Bob

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Chicago bliss doc....Chicago bliss.  :chef:
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Offline pythonic

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"Here is the process.   I use a bowl, whisk for dry ingredients and a spoon.   Mix all dry ingredients minus the yeast.  Add oil and mix in halfway with spoon then add in the water.  Mix half way again and next sprinkle in the yeast.  Mix again with your spoon until it all comes together."



Thanks for this. Here's my question. The part where it says "Mix in halfway". How about a visual here. Some dry flour and some clumped with oil?

Reason I ask is I made this today and when I put the oil in first, I used a fork and worked the oil into the flour where the flour was fully saturated with oil. Then added water.  The end product was a little hard, not flaky like you describe.

Dr Matt,

Mix in halfway means just a partial mix.  You still want loose flour.  The crust should come out flaky.   It shouldn't be bready at all.  If it is you are over kneading.  I gently knead with one hand for 30-45 seconds.  Less semolina helps too.  20% makes it very stiff.  I use 5%, give that a shot.  What temp you baking at and for how long?  The crust should just a little bite too it.  Also try using some high quality bigger chunks of tomatoes (whole peeled plum or diced.  Muir Glen is decent). it elevates it greatly.

Nate
« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 03:33:34 PM by pythonic »
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Online drmatt357

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You're correct Nate. I did over need it.  In fact, I remember saying the dough seemed nice and smooth more like my NY dough... after working it for a good 5 minutes.

I cook at 450 for 15m, rotate 180 degrees then a final 10m for 8" pie.

Offline pythonic

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You're correct Nate. I did over need it.  In fact, I remember saying the dough seemed nice and smooth more like my NY dough... after working it for a good 5 minutes.

I cook at 450 for 15m, rotate 180 degrees then a final 10m for 8" pie.

Try my bakers percents and do a gentle ultra short knead.  U won't regret it.

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.


 

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